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I'm a casual gamer so perhaps this has been made hundreds of times and I just ignore it.

So let's say you play your game, things don't go well so you go back and reload a save. Now, with your current knowledge you can get things right and that's usually how it goes with games.

Is there any game that takes this into the plot as something necessary by design (say for example, the main character is supposed to be clairvoyant or something)? You play, your character gets things wrong the first time, but now when you reload your character will obviously do everything right, almost as if they were clairvoyant/psychic/etc because that's exactly what your character is. The only way to beat the game is to explore a variety of outcomes in order to gather information until you get it right, but instead of this being immersion breaking it's actually supported by the plot itself.

Not sure if I'm making sense here or maybe I ate the wrong kind of cookies, you tell me...

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[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 25 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Isn't that just Undertale and Deltarune?

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 18 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

I don't know, you tell me. Never played either

[–] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 10 points 16 hours ago
[–] emb@lemmy.world 9 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Yep, narratively Undertale uses the exact concept you're talking about.

It's not much of a mechanic for most parts of the game though.

[–] matsdis@piefed.social 4 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, IIRC Undertale it will only taunt you a bit at first, you have to play almost to the end before you really notice. But then it masterfully beats you against the 4th wall, hard, several times. (Speaking about eating the wrong cookies, yes it does feel like that.)

And then, when you start a second play-through, the 4th wall stays broken. (Personally I didn't care enough for the game for a second play-through, but if you read it up it's a whole thing, the game will not simply reset.)

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago

Thanks for providing some context! I'm definitely intrigued now, I'll keep this one for my wishlist

[–] devolution@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 20 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Most rougelites kind of do this.

For "big" FPS games Deathloop kind of does it. You and the main villain are aware of a reset that happens when you die or the two day timer runs out.

Every loop you gain more knowledge, and every miniboss gives more power.

But to actually beat the game, you need to do a bunch of tasks in the right order in the right timeslots.

I don't think I ever finished it, but it was a fun concept

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 1 points 4 hours ago

I would have never thought of a roguelike.... Are we talking about stuff like shattered pixel dungeon? Hardly enough depth of plot and definitely a different run every time so repeating is nearly impossible.

As for Deathloop, that sounds really cool! That would fit the bill, cheers!

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 18 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

In Fable 2 when you purchase shops that earn you money it accrues in real time. If I plugged in my 360 I'd probably have 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 gold or something now haha

[–] 13igTyme@piefed.social 10 points 15 hours ago

It likely uses the Internal clock. Just set it to the year 3000 and retire.

[–] Davel23@fedia.io 10 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Kind of a primitive example, but in the old text-adventure Planetfall you had a robot sidekick named Floyd who, when you saved the game would occasionally comment, "oh boy, are we going to do something dangerous now?"

[–] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 hours ago

Oh, Floyd. That's a name I've not heard in a long time.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 10 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

The Demon/Dark Souls formula is essentially this. The idea that (depending on the game and boss) you actually canonically tried and failed countless times before finally winning. I want to say there is an indie game that is approaching that from the perspective of the boss (Many a True Nerd did a video on it. it looked "fine").

Warframe has also played with this in a different way. The 1999 update is about a time loop where you get to know (and romance) the characters involved. And over KIM (like AIM but legally distinct!) they outright acknowledge that they don't know how many loops have occurred but trust you about it and blah blah blah.

And Undertale/Deltarune and Doki Doki Literature Club (among many others) also play with this to some degree.

But ACTUALLY keeping track of when you reload a save? I am not aware of any. Mostly because it would make the mechanisms that save files work by MUCH more complicated.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago

No, I'm not saying keeping track of when you reload a save but simply have the NPCs and maybe even the main avatar acknowledge they know exactly what would happen if they did things differently, because they've already experienced it in another timeline.

You wouldn't need to keep track of saves, just leave some dialogue lines that vaguely address this after the fact.

[–] jokerwanted@lemmy.zip 10 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Shadow of Mordor and it's sequel, Shadow of War. The nemesis system makes death a part of the game, so a random orc that kills you gets a promotion.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Okay and then what happens with your character? Does it resurrect or you spawn a different one?

[–] ohshit604@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

You ”resurrect” at a spawn tower I guess would be the best way to put it.

Tap for spoilerthe game has a hierarchy system where you go against different types of warlords, each with their own abilities and weaknesses, if you bring a warlord down to a certain health you can ”infect/command” them and utilize them to go into combat, breach castles or fight other warlords, gather enough warlords and you’ll see them roaming the map and help you if they see you in combat.

It’s quite a unique mechanic and I’m pretty sure Warner Bro’s copywriten/trademarked it or something along those lines.

[–] jokerwanted@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 hours ago

This. It happens in the opening cut scene, so i don't think I'm spoiling anything. You get inhabited by a elf ghost, and the mechanic is that when you die, you go to like a spirit realm, then come back, and time has passed.

[–] Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk 9 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

It's been a long while but IIRC in one of the early Metal Gear Solid games there was a baddie who would threaten to (and could) corrupt your save file, completely breaking the fourth wall in the process.

[–] Bristlecone@lemmy.world 10 points 11 hours ago

Psycho Mantis! You had to switch your controller to the other port so he couldn't read your mind! 😂

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago

What?! That's awesome haha

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 8 points 10 hours ago

Not an RPG, but the ancient civ-like Output would have a "news" article pop up whenever you loaded a save game. "Entire colony plunged back in time - scientists baffled" or something like that.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

There’s a point in dotHack for the PlayStation 2 where you cannot progress until you power off and on the console and reboot the game. In-universe you’re waiting for another player of an MMO to message you in-game, and in real life the devs want you to give up, play another game or go to bed, and try to progress another time.

[–] Glytch@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago

Not quite the same, but the save points in Chrono Cross exist in universe and a twist later in the game reveals they're being used to alter people's memories.

Also running on low sanity in Eternal Darkness when it's been a while since you've last saved may cause the game to pretend to corrupt your save files or act like the GameCube lost power.

[–] DigDoug@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

This might not be quite what you're looking for, since it's an MMO, but there's a lot of unique quest dialogue in Runescape for those who know what they need beforehand - whether because they've done it before or because they're following a guide.

For example - Doric's Quest - a simple early game quest where he asks for some items:

Player: You know, it's funny you should require those exact things!

Doric: What do you mean?

Player: I can usually fit 28 things in my backpack and in a world full of quite literally limitless possibilities, a complete coincidence has occurred!

Doric: I don't quite understand what you're saying?

Player: Well, out of pure coincidence, despite definitely not knowing what you were about to request, I just so happened to have carried those exact items!

Doric: Oh my, that is a coincidence! Pass them here, please. I can spare you some coins for your trouble, and please use my anvils any time you want.

There's even an extra line about having the exact quantities of the items if you aren't carrying anything extra.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 3 points 4 hours ago

Lol good old RuneScape

[–] scrollo@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago
[–] Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

I cant think of any game that does this, but i can think of why. Forcing players to basically not be able to win until they do arbitrary failures and reload would make for an annoying and frustrating experience. Youre sitting there knowing nothing you do matters, so all of this will just be a chore. And if you do have the option to get it right the first time, then the mechanic is wholly pointless.

The closest you get are things like achievements or rewards for not saving or having the save deleted on death.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

I don't think I made my point clear enough. I don't need anything special from the game mechanics, and I'm not talking about forcing some sort of arbitrary failure. It's normal to reload a save once or twice for a tricky quest or boss. Most people don't rage quit for doing so.

All I'm asking about is how the plot of the game handles the protagonist's success. In most games, your character beats the quests or bosses and as far as the NPCs are concerned your character did everything perfectly just once, either because they got lucky or because they are amazingly skilled. But what if it was acknowledged that the real reason is they can see how things will play out if they did things differently, and/or they've had enough time in an alternate reality to hone their skills.

TLDR I'm talking about a narrative tool more than some weird gameplay mechanics.

Edit: from other comments I gather some games fit the bill, Undertale, Deathloop, and Dark Souls, maybe No Man's Sky too.

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[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 5 points 14 hours ago

The zero escape series sounds exactly like what you're looking for. It's very central to the plot. It's more of a visual novel with puzzles than an RPG though.

Raging Loop is another VN with a similar premise.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 5 points 16 hours ago

The Batman Arkham games gradually add visible damage to you as you die and reload. It's not exactly story relevant, but adds nice flavor.

There's also resetti in animal crossing that is a bit of the opposite. He just shames you and wastes your time for save scumming.

[–] Bristlecone@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

Not exactly what you're talking about, but canonically in some of the souls games and specifically elden ring you are a being that is immortal, but pathetic, theoretically. So dying over and over is just kind of written into the lore

[–] Broadfern@lemmy.world 4 points 16 hours ago

I can’t think of an RPG exactly that does this, but Postal 2 will poke fun at you when you save too often for its liking.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

I'm not sure about an RPG but this sounds similar to the main character's time manipulation powers in the original Life is Strange

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 3 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Prince of Persia on the GameCube (I think? It was a long time ago!) had a mechanism very like this, where you manually rewound time after you died/failed. More Action/Adventure than an RPG, though.

[–] kelpie_returns@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. Came out on all the big consoles of the time iirc.

Only ever saw my cousin play it a couple times as a kid so I cant account for much of its mechanics, but I definitely remember the title (and the time play ofc) and the envy I felt for him, because this game specifically piqued my interest back then.

[–] UKFilmNerd@feddit.uk 4 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

You had to kill enemies and then stab them with a special dagger to extract special sand that filled up an on screen guage.

That guage represented how far back you could rewind the game if you died or did something you wanted to undo.

My favourite part about this is that the entire story of the game is a giant flashback story as told by the prince.

Every time you died, the prince would say something like, "No, no, no, that's not what happened. Let me tell the story again."

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago

Nice .... This would fit the bill too!

[–] kelpie_returns@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Decades later and the 12yo in me is still enthralled. That all sounds so freakin cool! Haven't had a reason to open up pcsx2 since my brief obsession with armored core, but I think that'll be changing very soon lol

[–] Uruanna@lemmy.world 3 points 13 hours ago

The sequels, Warrior Within and The Two Thrones, also push through the storyline based on the fact the your character changed the past, did so multiple times, and kept screwing it further until hitting the big reset button.

Warrior Within has a scene where you watch a parallel version of you (you don't know it at the time) get killed, go back in time, and then relive that scene as the parallel version but you make your past version get killed instead.

[–] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 3 points 14 hours ago

It’s been a while since I’ve played, so I’m not 💯, but I think Bastion does this when you die and reload. The story is told through 3rd person audio narration as you play. I think it slips in “the boy gets up, brushes the dust off his boots, and tries again” or other such lines.

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

No Man's Sky.

spoiler


The game's lore is that it is a simulation. Some of the expeditions require you to live/die/repeat per se.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 3 points 4 hours ago

Interesting, this would fit the bill, thanks

[–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Depends on your pet theory as to what sort of soul the player character has in the elder scrolls, but being adjacent to the missing God isn't far off.

[–] A7thStone@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter isn't quite the what you are describing, but it is built around saving and reloading regularly.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

The Elder Scrolls and Fallout games notoriously do this. It's like half the exploits of the game if you're a speedrunner.

Though, not necessarily in the way you intended to mean. It's just how the save system works mechanically. Shit like having your momentum preserved to get massive speed boosts by simply saving and loading real quick, but also you can quickly backtrack by saving where you wanna be, doing a quest and then reloading as, for some reason, the quest being completed will also be saved eveb though you did it after you made the save.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Yes but there is nothing in game to explain how your character suddenly knew where to go or how they got the power boost. I'm looking for something that actually takes this into account as an essential part of the plot.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Undertale does this. It even goes so far with breaking the 4th wall, that for one of the possible endings you need to close the game and delete your save file from Windows (and it tells you this in-game). It knows you did this, and is the only way to continue with that particular path.

It has other nods to you reloading a save at various times throughout the game, as well.

[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 1 points 2 hours ago

Yes, it seems to fit the bill pretty well. From all the comments I think I should definitely play it sometime

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