this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 181 points 17 hours ago (14 children)

So free markets are a terrible idea now and countries practicing import substitution weren't impoverishing their people.

US hypocrisy at it's finest.

[–] latenightnoir@lemmy.blahaj.zone 64 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Our free market's good, yours is the problem! Gotta read the fine print!

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 15 points 16 hours ago (6 children)

„Free market“? Speaking of hypocrisy. Chinese car brands are so heavily subsidized they probably cost the Chinese economy more than they make selling them at the moment. China is clearly trying to drown the global market with cheap cars so they can ramp up prices immensely once they have killed the competition and have become a monopoly. China hasn‘t been the extreme low income country to produce super cheaply for a long time and they couldn‘t produce cars this cheap in a free market situation.

Many countries and the EU have measures against such practices because state run operations with the sole purpose to destroy an industry (which this is) undermine the very idea of the free market or even trade relationships.

Alternatively we could start subsiding local car makers and play the same little game China is playing but more cars is honestly the last thing we need right now. Tariffs are a much smoother option to deal with this even when they have a bad rep.

Ideally we use that generated money from tariffs to subsidize public transport so we don‘t get cheaper cars but cheaper alternatives but that‘s still just a dream I‘m afraid.

Whatever the case, one should look at super cheap cars and what that means in the long run more critically.

[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 58 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (4 children)

Alternatively we could start subsiding local car makers

We have been. Bailout after bailout. For the longest fucking time, and have had insane trade rules and tarrigs in place for decades and decades. I'd argue this is what it looks like to have another country finally being able to play on a level playing field.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 27 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

After the auto industry intentionally killed public transport.

The fact that one of the most powerful monopolies in the world went bankrupt and was forced to be bailed out by taxpayers more than once should really be a disqualifier for any future endeavors.

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[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 140 points 16 hours ago (9 children)

They have never considered actually competing have they?

[–] dinckelman@lemmy.world 74 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

They’ve actually done the exact opposite. The lobbying, the import laws, the absence of a foreign export market, and the manufacturing of cars that would never pass safety laws anywhere else, all resulted in the kind of dogshit that Americans have to experience now. Why improve if you’re the only player

[–] ToastedRavioli@midwest.social 11 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

They have an export market, its the handful of douchebags in Australia that want compensator trucks instead of a ute

[–] WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 14 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Big corporations know very well how competition works and would like to avoid it at all costs.

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[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 10 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

They do. For example here. Just not in your country.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 13 points 14 hours ago

They don’t compete here either.

They’ve stopped producing passenger cars, and the Chicken Tax means they don’t have to compete on trucks.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

They saw what happened in the 70s and said never again will they have to actually compete with better products

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[–] BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca 76 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Newsflash: American car manufacturer says "Our cars are crap and overpriced"

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[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 70 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

If you're one of the largest and oldest car manufacturers in the world and the most "innovative" thing you've managed to do in the last 20 years is rebrand Buick into a young family brand, then you probably need some good competition.

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 23 points 14 hours ago

Don’t forget the courage to not support CarPlay/Android Auto … just stupid.

[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 16 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

the most "innovative" thing you've managed to do in the last 20 years is rebrand Buick

... then you simply have no excuse anymore to exist at all.

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 22 points 14 hours ago (6 children)

Well they wouldn't if not for that hefty bailout by the American taxpayers that they got back in 2008.

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[–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 47 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

American cars have sucked compared to Asian cars since the 1970s. I don't understand why people are acting all surprised that this is true in respect to BYD. Sure in the past products designed in China were stereotyped as poor quality knock offs of western designed goods, but in the past decade Chinese engineers have increasingly proven themselves as perfectly capable of making solid, innovative designs that improve upon those of their competitors. I think it's kind of fucked up that everyone is so suddenly upset about China's role in the world economy since everyone was completely fine using them for cheap labor over the past several decades and are just mad that Chinese companies are beating them at high skill labor and technology. Chinese companies do have an "unfair advantage" given how much they are backed by the Chinese government but American companies receive all sorts of money from the government for all sorts of things as well.

[–] dirthawker0@lemmy.world 15 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (3 children)

Americans have come to think of Chinese products as bad quality because of the American companies who engage them for cheaper labor. Walmart was known to order products made to a certain spec one year, then the next year demand the company increase production, but for the same amount paid as the previous year. The Chinese company, not wanting to lose the contract, obliges, but corners have to be cut. It should be called Americanesium, not Chineseum.

Derek Guy (Die, Workwear!) posted a thread a while back (I think about 6 months ago) about how the Chinese can and do make great quality products, pointing out high quality fabrics. Give them money to buy good raw materials, give them a decent wage, and they'll put out a good product. Honestly, they probably have a more fair work ethic than some American companies that just feed their CEOs massive salaries or are owned by private equity.

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[–] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago

They went through a period in the 90s where they had a huge leap in quality and almost matched Japanese imports of the time. I'd say GM is the only one who's drivetrain quality is still on any comparable level with Asian imports. Ford gets some parts really right but then their beancounters make really dumb cuts to critical components that make many of their vehicles near lemons. I can't think of a worse car manufacturer in the world right now than Stellantis, and they aren't an American company anyway.

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[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 47 points 16 hours ago (8 children)

I am pretty sure there is some financial fuckery going on with BYD. My parents own two, and they are very nice, but way under priced compared to every other EV manufacturer.

Can't prove anything of course, but there is something odd going on when everyone else is 20-30k more expensive.

Hard to feel sorry for GM though, they suckled at our governments (Australia) teet for decades before giving up and leaving entirely. At least if BYD is being propped up we are at least getting good cheap cars from it.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 24 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

The financial fuckery is that they're very heavily subsidized by the CCP. It's not sustainable.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 32 points 16 hours ago (8 children)

I'd argue it is.

Just look how Amazon got where it is now: Sell way under market price, till local competition closed shop, then squeeze.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

It's unsustainable to keep prices lower than costs. The Amazon example didn't have low prices forever.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 10 points 15 hours ago (7 children)

Yes, I know. That's why BYD is going to then squeeze the customers once they are locked in.

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[–] Greyghoster@aussie.zone 10 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

While they are subsidised, the Chinese are really good at low cost manufacturing. It’s not the cheap labour anymore but factory automation and robotics. They really outclass anyone else.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 8 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

the Chinese are really good at low cost manufacturing

They're not "good" at it, they just have no minimum wage and no semblance of annoying things like worker protections or unions to be concerned with.

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[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 30 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

The same thing happened in the 80s with Japan. The Japanese were no longer making crappy cars but small and very reliable, affordable cars. Detroit was still making rust buckets, obsessing over powerful engines with bodies that rotted out and defects galore. Detroit got beaten up badly (Chrysler had to get a gov bailout) until they cleaned up their act and improved their products. Protecting Detroit from competition would've just saddled US consumers with decades more of crappy, overpriced, low quality, cars.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/how-detroits-automakers-went-from-kings-of-the-road-to-roadkill/

We still don't let in the small pickups the rest of the world enjoys.

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[–] zeca@lemmy.eco.br 30 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

So when can we stop with this "free markets" nonsense in the third world aswell??

[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 19 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

There hasn't every been a free market. Its a captive market. When you can only succeed by denying a competitor into a market you prove that. They refuse to rise to the challenge because they don't have to.

[–] PunkRockSportsFan@fanaticus.social 28 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

First the enshittified the food

Then the health care

Then every consumer product

Finally they enshittified the nation itself

[–] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 16 points 12 hours ago

Before that they enshitified the labor movement and unions via red scare tactics so there was less resistance to the enshitification process

[–] Deflated0ne@lemmy.world 25 points 11 hours ago (6 children)

Domestic US cars can't compete with foreign cars. We've known that forever. Or at least since the 90s.

Look no further than Kei trucks being illegal.

Our overengineered, over priced, unnecessarily complicated crap just can't compete with simple transport vehicles because they aren't made as a tool to serve a purpose. Everyone wants to make a Corolla into a Cadillac and sell it for Cadillac prices.

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[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 25 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

No shit, people want cheap, reliable transport and workers would want to build them, build and work on replacement parts, build batteries, etc. The only people supported by blocking BYD in the US are executives, shareholders, and the politicians they bought.

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[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 22 points 6 hours ago (8 children)

I don't give two cents for the american auto brands but spare me the drama: try and make a proper car.

Looking at Ford: try importing a few models from the european line and offer it in the states. Small, economic, somewhat reliable, fuel efficient cars.

Stellantis has a slew of models that could be brought into the american market. They make good cars.

And I'm willing to bet GM as a few models they build and market overseas that would be guaranteed sucesses.

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[–] wosat@lemmy.world 22 points 10 hours ago (18 children)

I don't disagree with the criticisms of American cars -- overpriced, uninspired, unreliable, over-engineered, etc. -- but to everyone saying "we should just compete", do you realize the realities that Chinese workers experience? Have you heard of 996? It's shorthand for a common work schedule in China: 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Benefits that are common in the U.S., even in non-union shops, like retirement plans, PTO, worker's comp, and overtime pay are rare. So, yeah, things can be made much cheaper if you are willing to feed your workforce into the grinder.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 13 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

So we should then let American oligarchs drive American workers to the same but slower? because that is what has happened so far

[–] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago

That is certainly their wet dream, now that they can't easily just move their manufacturing to China and reap all of the benefits like they could 70s - 90s.

[–] jarmitage@mander.xyz 13 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

And that’s exactly what is coming to the US, since they think workers rights and unions are the problem.

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[–] kemsat@lemmy.world 18 points 6 hours ago (12 children)

Maybe the USA should heavily invest in the industry of the USA, just like China does, in order to keep up? No, then USian companies would have oversight & have to meet expectations, and we all know that they wouldn’t want that.

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[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 12 points 17 hours ago

BYD? Wait until you see the Xiaomi car LOL!

[–] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 12 points 6 hours ago

Meanwhile, instead of trying to compete they cripple all EV advancement to make a quick buck on fossil fuel.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Only if they chose not to compete

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[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 10 points 13 hours ago (5 children)

Really, why is that? Is it maybe you are too greedy and make garbage? Is it? Hun?

Fuck executives.

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