this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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Previously, a yield strength of 5,000 pounds per square inch (psi) was enough for concrete to be rated as “high strength,” with the best going up to 10,000 psi. The new UHPC can withstand 40,000 psi or more.

The greater strength is achieved by turning concrete into a composite material with the addition of steel or other fibers. These fibers hold the concrete together and prevent cracks from spreading throughout it, negating the brittleness. “Instead of getting a few large cracks in a concrete panel, you get lots of smaller cracks,” says Barnett. “The fibers give it more fracture energy.”

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[–] Darrell_Winfield@lemmy.world 187 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Holy nothing burger, Batman!

First off, this article is from 2022, re-released to farm clicks from the current hype cycle.

Secondly, this is conjecture on top of conjecture. They discuss that we can't know the current damage from satellite, and Iran down plays the damage. Then they go on to say "concrete is strong and can be stronger".

Articles like this annoy me. It's all based on lots of unsubstantiated claims, and then one guy's theoretical research. We don't know the strength of the bombs. We don't know the strength of Iran's bunkers. We don't know how much damage was done. None of this has changed. I doubt we'll ever really know. But throw whatever political spin on it you want, and now you've got a click worthy news article.

[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 37 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (2 children)

There's also the fact that the majority of Iran's nuclear facilities were built before UHPC, the concrete discussed in the article, was available!

[–] Darrell_Winfield@lemmy.world 8 points 18 hours ago

I was suspicious of that as well, but I'm not knowledgeable enough on that subject to speak on it, so didn't include it. But I doubt any country can build that extensive of a nuclear factory in so few years.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 7 points 9 hours ago

In the late 2000s, for instance, rumors circulated about a bunker in Iran struck by a bunker-buster bomb. The bomb had failed to penetrate—and remained embedded in—the surface of the bunker, presumably until the occupants called in a bomb-disposal team. Rather than smashing through the concrete, the bomb had been unexpectedly stopped dead. The reason was not hard to guess: Iran was a leader in the new technology of Ultra High Performance Concrete, or UHPC, and its latest concrete advancements were evidently too much for standard bunker busters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordow_Fuel_Enrichment_Plant

Construction on the facility started in 2006, but the existence of the enrichment plant was only disclosed to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) by Iran on 21 September 2009,[6][7] after the site became known to Western intelligence services. Western officials strongly condemned Iran for not disclosing the site earlier;

Seems to fall into the same timeframe.

[–] tyler@programming.dev 6 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

I thought we do know the depth of the bunkers though. And that American bombs can’t go that deep, even multiple of them

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[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 59 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Sounds to me like someone is trying to justify actually using a tactical, atomic bunker buster.

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 23 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

tactical

Lol, they're gonna do the strategic one next

[–] Rubanski@lemm.ee 4 points 12 hours ago (5 children)

I never really got why tactical and strategic nukes are so wildly different. Aren't those words more or less synonyms?

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 16 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Strategic = Hiroshima getting obliterated

Tactical = The Imperial Palace is obliterated, but rest of Tokyo is mostly intact.

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[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 7 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

The reality is that "tactical" and "strategic" are functionally meaningless adjectives when applied to weapons or systems.

Theoretically, "tactical" refers to how a military unit engages another military unit. It is how a commander wins a battle against an enemy unit.

"Strategic" refers to how a nation engages another nation. It is how a government wins a war.

The term "tactical nuke" referred to something that a lower level commander could have been authorized to use under his own judgment. If Soviet tanks were rolling across Europe during the cold war, commanders may have been granted the discretion to use small nuclear weapons to halt their advance.

Since the the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction was established, there has been no such thing as a "tactical" nuke. Any wartime use of a nuclear weapon of any kind demands an escalation to total annihilation. I used the term "tactical" ironically, to refer to a pre-"MAD" doctrine that can no longer exist.

In declaring that conventional bombs cannot penetrate this fixed bunker, it seems that someone is pushing for unconventional warfare. The reality is that this bunker is not impenetrable. It shares the same weakness as any bunker: getting into and out of it. Bomb the entrances to the bunker, and it will take months or years to tunnel back in. Whatever they are doing inside it, they won't be doing until they manage to dig it up again.

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 6 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Very much not.

Tactical means immediately useful. E.g. use against troops. Strategical means mediately useful. E.g. use against infrastructure and production capacity. Also massively killing civilians. This is where most heinous war crimes live.

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[–] Saleh@feddit.org 5 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It is like a rifle vs. a cannon.

Yes it is functionally the same, but the "bullet" is much much larger.

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[–] EstonianGuy@lemm.ee 4 points 12 hours ago

Generally yield and intention difference, strategic takes out cities, tactical takes out factories, military bases and compounds.

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 37 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I suspect the world would be safer if everyone just let Trump think he won.

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 36 points 21 hours ago (3 children)
[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 15 points 21 hours ago (12 children)

And no bomb is irresistible.

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 9 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

That's why we need the Orbital Ion Cannon.

[–] mysticpickle@lemmy.ca 7 points 19 hours ago (2 children)
[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 19 hours ago

I did NOD see that coming.

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[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 13 points 21 hours ago

Except copeium.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 6 points 21 hours ago (2 children)
[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 21 hours ago

You can't break what is already broken

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Someone, somewhere, said they don't like you.

Now CRY!

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 35 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

That concrete really isn't new and really isn't that special. There's a reason they built it under a mountain - because the mountain does what concrete can't.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 8 points 9 hours ago

It is not that it can do what concrete cannot. It is just that digging a tunnel under a mountain is much easier than making a mountain out of concrete.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 27 points 22 hours ago (6 children)

From this article it sounds very likely that the bunker buster attack failed.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 19 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

And I read that the US used more than half of its stock of these bunker-buster bombs in this attack, the largest conventional bunker-busters in existence. So they can't simply try again.

[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 26 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

By your math, they absolutely can simply try again: one more time.

By my math, the bunker-buster bomb makers just got a big new contract.

something something DOGE of WAR something...

[–] match@pawb.social 11 points 21 hours ago

They can try one more time but worse

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 12 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

I mean they usually only do about 30 damage anyways.

Source

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[–] Paradox@lemdro.id 9 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

The article is 3 years old

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[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 8 points 21 hours ago

My guess: that bunker buster attack was twice as successful as the missile attack on the the airfield in Qatar.

2 x 0 = 0.

Now accepting bets on when we will find out that Trump had a secret call with Ali Khamenei where they negotiated the whole thing ahead of time, thus explaining the movement of the Uranium out of the facility, the movement of our servicemen out of the airbase, etc. etc.

[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 7 points 20 hours ago

Why? The kinds of UHPC being discussed in the article weren't available even in the United States until the year 2000 but most of Iran's nuclear facilities were built between 1974 and 2005. Even their primary enrichment facility in Fordow, which was struck with MOPs, was started no earlier than the mid-2000s as it was still unfinished in 2009.

Basically the majority of Iran's facilities, even their major ones, are too old to have the kind of concrete being discussed in the article.

[–] Darrell_Winfield@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

That's what they want you to think, but we have no evidence to either direction. And I doubt we will ever have a definitive answer.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 21 points 22 hours ago

Impressive.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (3 children)

Basically they used pyramid age tech to outplay billions of dollars worth of weapons tech.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Hardly. Did you read the article?

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

The greater strength is achieved by turning concrete into a composite material with the addition of steel or other fibers.

Fiber reinforcment is thousands of years old.

[–] deranger@sh.itjust.works 15 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Calling that pyramid age I think is a little disingenuous, they didn’t have 40,000 psi concrete back in those days.

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[–] Fondots@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

So I did not read the article because of a paywall I'm too lazy to circumvent right now

But from OP's summary, the main technology they're talking about is concrete reinforced with steel or other fibers.

And that's definitely more advanced than "pyramid age"

But it's also pretty much a direct descendant of mud brick reinforced with straw which humanity has been using since well before the pyramids. Same basic concept, different materials.

So yes and no.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 6 points 21 hours ago

Yes....no.....maybe? I don't know. Can you repeat the question?

[–] Bonus@slrpnk.net 6 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Egyptians stacked blocks of stone to build the pyramids.

Roman concrete was impressively strong.

Neither of them had steel-reinforced concrete.

Neither did Gothic cathedrals, which is why they needed flying buttresses.

Reinforced concrete as we know it today is a 19th century innovation, as I understand it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforced_concrete?wprov=sfla1

Maybe the commenter was thinking of adobe.

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[–] AJ1@lemmy.ca 4 points 21 hours ago

I sure would like to read this article, it seems fascinating, but it's paywalled.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago (5 children)

They mean mixing in steel dust or nylon hair?

Hard to believe this is a recent enough thought.

[–] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 13 points 10 hours ago (6 children)

I doubt it's a recent thought, knowing civil engineers, they're absolute perverts when it comes to concrete.

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