As much as I enjoyed Idiocracy when it came out, I wish its proposed answer/crux of the issue wasn’t “smart people should have kids” and instead focused on educating the ones that are already here/brought into this world.
this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
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People want easy solutions, like "Have more people be born smart" instead of hard, complex, realistic ones like "Put time, effort, and resources into robust education of the population in stable familial and social environments to develop higher averages of generally recognized metrics of intelligence in the general population"
There was already a precedent for all this. After the Second World War, American jumped right into the Cold War with the Russians and wanted to take the lead in science, technology, rocketry, space and engineering. They quickly realized that their country at the time was ill equiped and not well trained or educated for all this ... so they took the shortcut of using former Nazis to head their science and technology fields for a few years. Then to take up the slack, the government heavily invested in education and training to pump out the scientists, engineers and professionals they needed to gear up their technological war with the Soviets.
So the 50s, 60s, and 70s got filled with a lot of bright well trained, well educated and informed young people. They were able to power the American war machine but a side effect to all that was all these insightful young people became the backbone of a counter culture that fought against war, capitalism, inequality, conservatism and racism and supported black rights, Native rights, women's rights, minority rights, animal rights and environmentalism.
Then they had to bring in people like Reagan and Thatcher to reign in these counter culture movements and swing the pendulum back again. Once they defeated the Soviets in the Cold War, conservative America had all the incentive to break everything down again and dumb down the population until it was a just a compliant pulp that could elect a clown.
Using former Nazis wasn't because there was a shortage of educated people in general in the US after WW2. The vast majority of Nazi scientists who made major contributions to US progress (or Soviet progress, for that matter), were in rocketry, which the Nazis put disproportionate effort and funding into.
Agreed ... but in order for the US to push through their rocket program, they needed scientists and researchers to develop, test, build, test, retest, and test some more all of the applied science that had been developed. The country needed to build an entire community of thousands of professionally trained technicians, scientists, engineers, professionals ... and with them had to come teams of administrators, academics, trainers, bureaucrats, office workers ... and with all of them had to come entire groups of trained builders, workers, electricians, plumbers, draftsmen, planners and all the people that came with ... and all that had to be supported by an industry that needed to build and develop all the things that had to be needed to get this monolith moving, which meant that all these corporations and businesses needed their own teams of professionally trained people.
It was a massive investment in education in order to get the ball rolling in industry to build the rocket program. It wasn't just building rockets ... it was building an entire industry upon industry upon industry to get to the point of building a single rocket that could launch anything into orbit.
The reason why any of it happened was that the government heavily invested in educating and training an entire population to make it all possible.
Your analysis is spot on. (most of my career has been in aerospace)
I would also add that the training programs and apprenticeships that were developed have been gutted as they destroyed the unions.
The whole rebuilding American manufacturing through tariffs is a total pipe dream. I'm one of the few machinists that stuck through the great recession in my generation. There are no where near enough people like me to train kids and the guys that taught me are dead.
It takes minimum, four years, to grow a self-sufficent machinist on the job. Trade schools are pretty much worthless, kids come out of trade school and they're fit to sweep floors or maybe punch a button if they're real sharp.
It would take twenty years of consistent government and corporate support to rebuild and we all they are too greedy and short sighted for that.
I assume it is similar for a lot of other trades.
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The US literally beat the Nazis to developing fission technology, i.e. nukes (admittedly with a very international research community). It's quite clear just from that, that the US had plenty of strong scientists before they brought in Nazis/Nazi collaborators from overseas.
As a complete side note: I believe it's been speculated (by people who know much more about this than me) that Nazi research on nukes, among other things, was hampered by researchers like Heisenberg deliberately dragging their feet because they were forced to work on the projects but didn't believe in the cause. I'm not meaning to clear the name of any Nazi collaborators, but pointing out that not all scientists working under the Nazi regime were necessarily nazis.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Idiocracy didn’t propose any solution at all. If I remember correctly, smart people not having kids was just a plot driver. Sadly, with the way things are that is how it’s gonna happen in our lifetime most likely. Education is getting worse over time, so the ones who’ll be able to educate their kids properly are those who are already educated.
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Which means 54% cannot write a competent book report hitting the major plots and themes.
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In case you were wondering why we're losing our democracy to a felon rapist.
Is this real? And what’s 6th grade for someone who isn’t American?
Around 12 years old or so. I've been hearing something similar to this my whole life. I didn't understand how true it was until I started recruiting in 2009.
Not that it started with Bush, but after 'No Child Left Behind' act schools were incentivized so pass all students. They tied school funding to graduation rates and passing students. Teachers taught more just to the test and not comprehending the material.
I'm sure it's gotten worse COVID.
In my high school they were passing people who were functionally illiterate to keep funding up. It was pretty much assumed those kids were a lost cause so they never got any extra help either. School would just look the other way as someone was lost in the cracks and passed on paper. The very rare ones that did manage to get extra help would take tests in a different room and it was well known the aids would just give them answers if they took too long. Everyone hated it especially the kids being passed through. They got ostracized for "having it easy" while also being frustrated they're spending all day being told to focus on stuff they don't understand and aren't getting real help with
I think 6th grade is reading for plot. Just a basic plot with a few characters. No complex themes. No unreliable narrators. Limited vocabulary.
I found an online test for it somewhere and it was like
"Sally was born in Canada and lived there until she moved to the United States when she was thirteen. She spends summers in Canada with her aunt and uncle, but spends the rest of the year in Boston. This year, she's graduating from high school and planning on attending college. She wants to see more of the country, so her top picks for college are in California and Chicago."
"Where does Sally live during the winter?"
"Where did Sally spend her childhood?"
"Where do Sally's aunt and uncle live?"
You're not going to find as many people who read badly on a majority text platform like this.
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Not great. Sixth graders would be the 11-12 year old kids. It's been a while since I was in school(I'm 38) and when I was in sixth grade I was considered "advanced" in reading level due to reading Tolkien.
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Sadly, yes. It is largely a consequence of two things: constant right-wing efforts to destroy public education and neoliberal profiteering. The first requires little explanation. The second is something that I only learned about because LeVar Burton (Geordie LaForge in Star Trek TNG) has produced a documentary on it and has been participating in activism to try to fix the damage.
Basically, with the neoliberal philosophy that profit is more important than anything else, education fell into the sights of profiteers. Through connections and back-room deals, schools have been forced to adopt proprietary "literacy" methods and tools that were initially developed explicitly to allow people with diminished cognitive capacity to somewhat function in society. This means that there's a whole generation that only learned how to do things like guess what a word is based on its shape, rather than understanding its phonetics or figuring out its meaning from its constituent roots.
This profiteering, as a side effect, also harms education overall as it has robbed people of their ability to engage in self-learning. Something that is only helping to cause further harm with people off-loading cognitive efforts to LLMs, and not having the skills to differentiate between when they spout pure bullshit and output something that is useful or factual.
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If all natural-born citizens has to go through the naturalization process before getting the right to vote, trump would never have been elected.
Not just because they don't know the 100 (I think they changed it to 120 now?) questions, but also because they would not pass the:
"Have you ever been a member of
any totalitarian party?
Have you ever been a member of a
terrorist organization?
Have you ever advocated the
overthrow of any government by
force or violence?
Have you ever persecuted any
person because of race, religion,
national origin, or political opinion?" Questions
(Fun fact: They can revoke your citizenship after the fact if they catch you lying, or if you do any "terrorist" activity within 5 years of naturalization. Jan 6 riotor types would never pass this. As a naturalized citizen, I'm kinda dreading this since last November)
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It took thirty years of cutting education spending but they are almost to a fully ignorant populace.
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For us foreigners, 6th grade is around 10 / 11 years old?
Yes, about. Ten years is peak reading for most Americans. And we wonder why they f-ck up the world.
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Yep, going to report this. It's not a meme .. it is actually fact and documentation for our eventual Idiocracy future.
Just kidding about the report of course.
Op would be very upset if he could read this.
Can we fix that by abolishing the department of education?
It's only gonna get worse, isn't it?
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This is pretty much all you need to know about the state of the United States. It's being run by 10 year old imbeciles.
no, its being run by greedy, assholes, who know exactly what they're doing. The 10 year old imbeciles are their republican voters and the yes-men they hire to do their bidding.
I saw that "3min read" tag on the screenshot and thought, "Not for 54% of American adults."
If those Americans could read they'd be very upset about that!
Republicans at work. A dumb electorate is the easiest to manipulate.
Well, reading and writing is a 6 millenia old technology, thus it's in dire need of replacement with AI readers /s
That's higher than I thought. Aren't newspapers written at around third or fourth grade levels?
At this rate, in about a decade, tabloids will be formatted like comics with more pictures than words to make it easier for people
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The podcast called Sold a Story talks about how the school systems adopted a curriculum that doesn't teach kids how to read. They are more like mimicking literacy. It gives appearances they they are reading but they aren't comprehending.
For clarity: this is based on piaac test results. The literacy test results are sorted into 6 categories (1-5 and <1) for comparing the distribution internationally. 54% of Americans score less than 3, compared to top-scoring Japan and top-english-speaking Australia at approximately 35% and 45%. The task description for level 3:
Adults at Level 3 are able to construct meaning across larger chunks of text or perform multi-step operations in order to identify and formulate responses. They can identify, interpret or evaluate one or more pieces of information, often employing varying levels of inferencing. They can combine various processes (accessing, understanding and evaluating) if required by the task . Adults at this level can compare and evaluate multiple pieces of information from the text(s) based on their relevance or credibility. Texts at this level are often dense or lengthy, including continuous, noncontinuous, mixed. Information may be distributed across multiple pages, sometimes arising from multiple sources that provide discrepant information. Understanding rhetorical structures and text signals becomes more central to successfully completing tasks, especially when dealing with complex digital texts that require navigation. The texts may include specific, possibly unfamiliar vocabulary and argumentative structures. Competing information is often present and sometimes salient, though no more than the target information. Tasks require the respondent to identify, interpret, or evaluate one or more pieces of information, and often require varying levels of inferencing. Tasks at Level 3 also often demand that the respondent disregard irrelevant or inappropriate text content to answer accurately. The most complex tasks at this level include lengthy or complex questions requiring the identification of multiple criteria, without clear guidance regarding what has to be done
I could not find which source originally cited level 2 as "6th grade" equivalent, though the oecd recommends against drawing that parallel.
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Yeah, we’ve noticed. Not that Europe is far behind I fear.
Literacy is definitely declining; people just don’t have the attention spans they used to. Between Twitter, TikTok and other brain rot, reading a book or simply a longer text just isn’t something a lot of people do.
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If you want some light horror reading, check out /r/teachers.
In high school, I always thought the kids sounding out words like "the" were just taking the piss and doing it on purpose. I see now that was genuine. 😔
How do you test a reading level? Like for me it was always you either can read and understand or you can’t. What differentiates reading levels from grade to grade?
Another comment here gives an example of how a 6th grade reading comprehension test could be formulated. Essentially, it's about how complex sentences you can parse, and how large your "context window" is while reading.
Imagine a small child just learning to read. They struggle with every word, so if a sentence grows more complex than "The dog is brown.", they simply can't get to the end of the sentence while still remembering what the start was about. This also applies at a higher level: Keeping track of a complex "scene" which describes a setting while also describing dialogue between characters and inner dialogue in parallel requires more cognitive effort than the simpler "scenes" in children's books. A higher reading level means you spend less cognitive effort reading and understanding the words and sentences, so you have more cognitive capacity in reserve to actually understand the full picture.
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Did you start reading Kant's Critique of Pure Reason the instant you learned to read?
Who is that sexy mother fucker in the picture?
you mean president Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho?
You forgot my title of Five Time Ultimate Smackdown Champion scro
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