this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2025
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Summary

Louisiana is set to execute Jessie Hoffman by nitrogen gas on Tuesday, becoming the second state to use this method despite banning it for euthanizing cats and dogs under state law.

Lawyers argue the method constitutes cruel punishment, citing four recent Alabama executions where prisoners showed distress signs including violent shaking and convulsions.

Louisiana veterinarian Lee Capone, who helped ban animal gassing in the state, called Hoffman's planned execution "horrific."

A federal judge's temporary stay was overturned Friday by the fifth circuit court. Three major nitrogen manufacturers have blocked their products from being used in executions.

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[–] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 29 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (2 children)

Nitrogen is what they use in those suicide capsules as well. You pass out and then suffocate but wont feel like suffocating because that feeling is not caused by the lack of oxygen but the inrease in co2 levels.

EDIT: to add onto this, carbon dioxide is the exact opposite - a total panic since the first inhalation untill you die. It's known to cause panic attacks even on people who are unable to feel fear due to a brain defect. I know some people euthanize small pets this way thinking it's humane. It's about as humane as burning them alive.

[–] MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world 21 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

And none of the states using nitrogen as an execution method have any intention of doing it "properly" (obligatory "death penalty is fundamentally wrong").

[–] SaltSong@startrek.website 3 points 3 hours ago

Yea, if we assume for the sake of argument that we should be executing people are all, nitrogen gas seems like a pretty good way to do it. I've never made a detailed study, but I've worked with the stuff, and had the safety training. Apparently there is no "danger" signal from the body, and you just keel over.

[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 57 minutes ago) (1 children)

There's a video somewhere of a documentarian undergoing oxygen deprivation under medical supervision by pumping nitrogen gas into a sealed room while he attempted to solve a simple geometric puzzle (like one for kids, putting the circle in the circular hole, etc). He felt totally fine the entire time but became euphoric and rapidly declined in cognitive ability - to the point where he could no longer solve the puzzle but was very confident that he was doing very well. Iirc he asked when they were going to start the nitrogen at some point. When he was supplied with oxygen he reflected on the experience and said he had no idea anything was wrong.

Now I'm not saying there isn't something I'm missing or don't understand regarding suicide/execution by nitrogen, but as far as I understand it, any discomfort occurs after you've lost consciousness.

I have a feeling the backlash when states started considering this as an execution method was intended to paint it as less humane than the 3-drug cocktail to propagandize against the death penalty - knowing that if a more humane method were used, the movement against the death penalty would probably lose some supporters. So, they poisoned the well a couple years ago when this conversation first hit the news.

Now, the real argument against the death penalty is that the state shouldn't have the ability to kill convicts because what is a capital offence can change for arbitrary reasons and the judicial system will always wrongly convict people. But a more visceral argument is that execution is painful and cruel - so take away the pain and you lose the folks you've persuaded using that argument.

[–] Foreigner@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I think the fundamental difference between that experiment and the "suicide capsules" vs the death penalty is that in the *former the people going into it are doing so willingly. I imagine people undergoing the same procedure involuntarily will probably resist, hold their breath, panic, do whatever they can to sabotage the process, etc. The reason this method is rarely used to euthanise pets is precisely because of this - the animals get stressed (as many often do at the vet where they need to be for the procedure) panic, react, and it takes way longer than it should as a result.

Edit: edited for clarity

[–] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 14 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

In theory Nitrogen suffocation should be incredibly humane. Nitrogen gas is incredibly dangerous in the workplace exactly because the human body is incapable of noticing it displacing air. It can kill you without you even noticing until you keel over dead.

Problem is when you shove a mask on someone's face and pump nitrogen into it, that's not what you're doing...

That doesn't displace the air the executed was breathing, because the air has nowhere to go, so it just mixes with the Nitrogen gas. The O2 gets used up and CO2 builds up until they die, which is basically normal suffocation (which is incredibly inhumane) with a side of Nitrogen gas.

To do it properly, you'd need to a much bigger chamber so that the air in the executed's lungs would be easily displaced, or a way to filter the CO2 out of the air they're breathing... But who's got time for that, when you can just torture prisoners with something that should be humane and pretend you have no idea why it "doesn't work properly" /s

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 27 minutes ago* (last edited 26 minutes ago)

To do it properly, you’d need to a much bigger chamber so that the air in the executed’s lungs would be easily displaced, or a way to filter the CO2 out of the air they’re breathing

You don't even need any of that, you just need a positive pressure, constant circulation mask that vents a continuous stream of nitrogen, so that any exhaled co2 is immediately flushed out and replaced by nitrogen. But of course nobody on this side of the "just ice" system gives a shit about "improving" such a process.

[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 7 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

There's two things going on here.
As a pilot, I'm familiar with hypoxia and how it works. I or pretty much any other pilot could very quickly write a completely bulletproof execution protocol that would guarantee a 100% painless death every time. It would involve a non-rebreathing 100% nitrogen mask so every lungful taken is 100% fresh nitrogen. In this mode, you just get drowsy and euphoric and pass out with no physical pain.

If they ask me to write it, I don't care if they offer a million dollars I wouldn't do it. I think the death penalty is barbaric and the way we have applied it is even worse, given how there are numerous instances of people executed despite evidence they were innocent being blocked by court procedure and prosecutors. I'm not saying there aren't people the world is better off without, there absolutely are. But if we are going to kill people, we need to be absolutely 100% totally fucking sure beyond any doubt regardless of procedure. So I will not support the death penalty.

And that brings us to the two issues.
First is that very few people who actually understand how to do it have any interest in writing good execution protocol. Thus a lot of the protocols are written by people without understanding of human physiology. And quite frankly, I would rather that be the case, if only so it is easier to challenge capital punishment.

Second, is that I think some of the people who write these protocols actually want to cause suffering. I say I'm a pilot so I have understanding of hypoxia, but none of my knowledge is unique or difficult to obtain. A quick Google for 'painless death nitrogen' would tell you everything you need to know.
So when I hear that the condemned is breathing his own CO2 from a bag, I conclude that either whoever wrote the protocol doesn't have Google, or they are intentionally writing a protocol that will look good on paper but cause suffering in reality. Or the protocol is being implemented in such a way to cause suffering, for example if the nitrogen flow is not enough. An executioner could easily prolong suffering by simply using less nitrogen, causing the prisoner to breathe CO2 and thus feel panic reaction.

But I think that further illustrates why the death penalty is a bad idea. The fact that the entire stack from prison guard up to Governor isn't 100% focused on a humane death sense to me we need to clean our own house before we start burning others.

[–] My_IFAKs___gone@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Geez you communicated that perfectly.

[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I don’t really support death row, but I did always wonder - do they ever ask the prisoners if they have a preference? I feel like I’d take the good ole’ guillotine over asphixiation.

[–] My_IFAKs___gone@lemmy.world 1 points 57 minutes ago

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Ehhhhhhhhh, I think I'd prefer gentle asphyxiation by nitrogen or a lethal dose of morphine or sudden teleportation to the center of a star.

[–] yesman@lemmy.world 1 points 49 minutes ago

The purpose of humane executions is to relieve pain and discomfort to capital punishment supporters. It's not a worthy goal.

If you oppose capital punishment, then you should prefer the most horrific and cruel methods because that at least forces the public to face the cruelty done in their name.