this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 115 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (4 children)
[–] oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

Ea Nasir is a really interesting case study of how one piece of information can be interpreted in two completely different ways.

One interpretation, and the one most people know, is that the authors of the clay tablets complaints are legitimate.

The other is that Ea Nasir kept them as a record of people attempting to harm his reputation. So he could remember who to avoid doing business with in the future.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 14 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Also ancient Sumer had a pretty decent legal system for it's time, it's entirely possible Ea-Nasir was keeping the tablets for a possible court case. So the ancient equivalent of saving texts from a shit customer.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 7 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Your honor, I have 500 lbs of receipts.

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[–] MummysLittleBloodSlut@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

So it's like the Lemmy modlog. Maybe it's a log of mods calling out bad users, maybe it's a log of mods lying and power tripping.

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[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 5 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)
  1. he was gathering evidence of an employee or delivery partner comitting fraud

I would give this merchant zero stars if I could

[–] Sendpicsofsandwiches@sh.itjust.works 13 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Awful copper

Worst trade experiemce of my life. I will not be returning

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[–] Quexotic@infosec.pub 79 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

And flock cameras are apparently easily rooted and repurposed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY

I heard the ones in school zones actually have 10lb of copper and a chocolate bar inside

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 36 points 14 hours ago (8 children)

I mean, being anti-authority is fine, but even if you achieve your stateless society, don't you still want your stateless society to still have traffic co-ordination somehow?

Stateless =/= rule-less

[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 22 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

If only it were possible to transport humans and goods without a network of cameras invading everyone's privacy.

If only that was the natural state of the world for more of human history until just a few years ago.

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 21 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

Photo enforcement cameras are problematic for several reasons.

A) It has been shown that yellow lights with such cameras are very often set to a yellow duration briefer than generally accepted engineering practices to increase revenue *1

B) They discourage a rare misbehavior, actually running red lights, whilst causing another to become common. That is slamming on the brakes even when it isn't safe to stop. Exacerbated by A. Better slam on the brakes when it flicks yellow even if you are way too close to reasonably stop whilst going only the speed limit.

People who are caught up by it are almost always those who found themselves a bit too far into the intersection to safely stop. EG those who cross the threshold right as it is changing. There is for reasons of safety a few seconds between one light turning red and another green. At 30 mph (44 feet per second) someone will fully clear a 40 foot intersection in less than a second. That is to say the only people you catch aren't those who would have collided.

They are those

  1. you fucked with the shorter duration yellow oops
  2. people who hesitated because of 1 and slowed but ultimately decided to proceed thinking they can make it
  3. People with poorer brakes and or dealing with rainy conditions reducing stopping time.

C) Most of the money goes to the contractor who owns the cameras. Essentially you are letting a private company prey on your citizens as long as government gets to keep the scraps.

*1 https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

[–] pahlimur@lemmy.world 13 points 7 hours ago

I'll add one more. They subvert our right to a trial and seeing our accuser. The fines are all supposed to be viewed by some sort of officer that is supposed to show up if you challenge the ticket. The only one I've received didn't have any info on how to challenge it. It was like a bill that obfuscated my right to a trial. Guilt is assumed and forgiveness is ignored. 28 in a school zone in an unfamiliar city, instant fine with no "oops I fucked up" recourse.

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[–] MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip 17 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

As someone else pointed out, the traffic light itself isn't being affected, just the automated enforcement mechanism of the camera. We managed just fine without those.

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[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Traffic enforcement cameras are one of the worst ways I can think of to coordinate traffic.

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[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (6 children)

There is some political horseshoe theory that connects "People who cannot stand any kind of authority at all and start shrieking even when a forum mod removes their comments."

It's the weird far-left anarchists and far right libertarians finding common ground in wanting a society where mommy doesn't tell them to not run with scissors. Some of the "sovereign citizens" who make for hilarious Youtube content are sincere in their their irrational hate for any kind of rules and laws.

I have had enough dealings with these folks that I have a pretty strong opinion that nobody has been able to change, that these folks just have serious authority issues and do not give a shit about a broader society and are just mad at their parents.

They are the absolute worst people you could ever have as neighbors. I sometimes think we should drive them into the sea via mobs with torches.

edit: let me double down - if you get angry at the idea of authority (not considering the enforcers or management of that authority, which is a separate thing) you need to be driven into the sea via mobs with torches. We need systems and rules and taxes for a functional society. Work on changing the way that society enforces and motivates people to follow those rules instead of blindly lashing out at anything designed to keep people safe.

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[–] abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 12 hours ago

That can be done though street design. See: The Netherlands.

[–] kadu@scribe.disroot.org 5 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

I mean this in a genuine way, why in your mind those are the two options available? Total anarchy without functioning transit or cameras pointing at drivers?

There are several different ways to control traffic. If privacy is an importanr factor for a culture, they'd rank privacy respecting alternatives higher.

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[–] Naich@lemmings.world 32 points 17 hours ago (5 children)
[–] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 13 points 11 hours ago (14 children)

They would remove the camera not the traffic light. I don't think that would cause an accident

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[–] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 23 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

Gonna be downvoted, because apparently this is car brain central, but the amount of mental gymnastics people will do to make red light camera enforcement "bad" is crazy.

The US' private company control over these cameras notwithstanding.

Fuck me, so many people die on on roads, and especially at intersections.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 14 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

The city I work for put up Flock cameras with specific instructions from Council that they were only to be used for identification of cars flagged in active warrants.

Within a week of their installation, police used the cameras to track the movements of someone who filed a complaint.

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[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 6 points 39 minutes ago

The US’ private companies

this is entirely the problem, because they're turning over info to ICE and other agencies and it's being used oppressively.

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[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 22 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (7 children)

Taking out speedtrap so driver can self regulate is like taking out ~~CDC~~ FDA so big pharma can self regulate.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 75 points 21 hours ago (21 children)

These aren't about speed anymore, they're all turning into auto license plate readers run by private corporations for an infinite surveillance dragnet

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 25 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

You don't have a speedtrap issue, you have private vulture issue. Signing the enforcement right to private company is a recipe for disaster.

[–] rami@ani.social 5 points 15 hours ago

Sure, yeah if they were only used to snap pictures of people speeding I wouldn't have a problem but that's not what they're limited to.

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[–] I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 12 points 21 hours ago

FDA, but yeah.

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[–] SanctimoniousApe@lemmings.world 20 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Wait until they find out about the gold-plated interconnects.

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 19 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

I'm a little confused, do you want people running red lights in the name of "personal liberty, yeehaw" because that seems like a bad idea.

[–] kuhli@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (7 children)

No, I just haven't seen any evidence red light cameras are effective.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/

Also I don't like everything being under camera surveillance, so I need a strong justification to be fine with more of it

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[–] pahlimur@lemmy.world 9 points 7 hours ago (5 children)

Big problem with these is profit motivation. They are usually operated by a for profit business that the city contracts to. One of the cities near me had a few installed. The company made 5 million a year in fines, city ended up with pennies. The road is built like a 40mph road but has a 25mph speed limit only where the cameras are. There is no money to update the road to actually make it safer because it all goes to the company operating the cameras.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 10 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

That's not to mention they usually change the timing to catch people off guard for more tickets. Someone went around in my area timing a bunch of different lights and found that every light with the ticket generating cameras had yellow lights shorter than the legal limit for the state.

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[–] tacosanonymous@mander.xyz 15 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

We should also state how much that is in dollar bucks.

[–] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 15 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

Just about $23 per camera where I'm at

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[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 9 points 20 hours ago

Bright shiny copper is just under $4/lb where I am. It varies by location and what your recyclers will pay.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 11 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

On the one hand, omnipresent surveillance is bad and ripe for abuse.

On the other, I feel like the haphazard and selective enforcement of traffic laws by police officers is also really bad. Cops can selectively enforce laws so poor people or black people or whatever out-group suffers more. A machine should be impartial.

On the last hand, no traffic enforcement is probably going to get people killed. So that's not desirable.

Also, fines are problematic. Fines should probably scale with wealth, but also it shouldn't be a revenue source because that's a perverse incentive.

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[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 10 points 5 hours ago

Sure, remove the red light but please also remove cars.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 9 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

That's like $27 per camera or so.

[–] RedAggroBest@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago

That's $27 of meth they wouldn't have had otherwise

[–] faizalr@piefed.social 7 points 21 hours ago (4 children)
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[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 5 points 4 hours ago

Friendly reminder that no technology is ever intrinsically good or bad, that is determined by who wields it and to what end.

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