No Stupid Questions

It's not shame so much as deep embarrassment for the current state of our country. We look like fucking morons on the world stage. Thankfully we will move on from this stage in our history, but the stain may remain for decades to come.

You don't have to be at fault to be ashamed.

I feel deeply embarrassed about being from the US. It's like hanging out with a group of friends out of necessity, later realizing they were all assholes, and trying to come to terms with the fact you spent so many years with them. I live outside the US now and I'm even more embarrassed to be from there. Every time there's some culture shock my takeaway is either "wow how did I normalize this broken aspect of the US" or "I wish I was from somewhere that didn't do those things to that person's country".

I also feel embarrassed and guilty over getting out of the US. I worked in tech and now I'm living off tech savings to start a life outside the US. I left my friends behind many of them are struggling financially, I left my community behind many of which are actively homeless, I chose to leave. Sure I'm leaving in part because my trans ass is on the chopping block but I see a lot of trans people fight harder instead of flee. I fought for so many years though and I couldn't keep doing it so I left. The US did this to my community, made me confront choices I never wanted to make, I'm disgusted by having paid taxes to the war machine, and I justify working in tech as a way out of there but really I feel guilty over choosing to buy into that side of the US too so I could secure personal safety.

China has been China-ing for a while, we get it. America's actions are relatively fresh, and a majority of us DID choose him. While I'll immediately reassure people that I didn't vote for him, the fact that I have to separate myself from what's going on comes from a sense of shame over that.

That said, if I met a Russian I wouldn't necessarily hold the invasion of Ukraine against them... But I might have to ask if they really support that shit.

I grew up in Indonesia, my sister is from Java, my brother is from Singapore. I'm natively from California, and I'm a huge white boy. I am ashamed that the country of the free, the country of the brave who had bounteous arms to welcome the downtrodden and abused of the world is no longer that place. Instead it's the land of the secret police, tbe land of a pedophile traitor president who can't stand any kind of criticism because he's a fucking coward who dodged military service.

I believe the shame stems from the moral injury we all suffer when we peacefully stand by in a democracy and let bad people control the government and inflict serious harm on innocents

So in some respect it is in fact all of our faults because we do in fact sit by and watch people die so we can respect the democratic process.

I feel that way but because I’m human.

We are not good people.

Anyone who has been embarrassed by a family member knows.

I'm just embarrassed as fuck

I don't have pride in my government or its actions.

It was actively causing a lot of harm for most of its existence and is now turbo charging its ability to enshittify the world.

The LEAST I can do is make it clear we're not all in support of this shit.

Love the country and people though. Lots of cool forests to roam and lots of people who don't suck.

We were raised with "pride," not necessarily racially or ethnocentric, but a broader sense that transcended such boundaries. I grew up in the 80s-90s in the midwest, and we were taught America was a "melting pot" of cultures, ideas, and races, and that we should look forward to a time when whites are not the majority because the lines will fall away, the average color will be brown as we all mix over the next generations, giving us less reason to fight. And we should look forward to it, because that's been our story so far - broken, impoverished immigrants came here looking for opportunity, and found it through hard work and smart thinking, and then became a part of our shared tapestry. We were taught to be proud of this, that we were stewards of this tradition in the best, most advanced country in the world.

And now, well. The basest instincts of people have been brought to the surface and America now stands as an openly white nationalist, isolationist, fascist-tinged autocracy where the ideals I grew up with seem long antiquated.

So yeah hard not to feel ashamed of what's happened to our shared identity in just a few decades.

One word:

Tribalism.

It’s shaming to see people and institutions you were proud of and bragged about being the best, then devolve into something the rest of the world laughs at.

I'm from the US but left to live outside it. I will NEVER FUCKING EVER call myself an American, much less a proud American. I'll call myself a NYer because I owe most of who I am to that state/city, but I am ashamed about the country I grew up in and absolutely do not want to be associated with it. The US government has only ever caused me and my people harm.

Well this last election really broke me from thinking of myself as an American. I just happen to live here.

Because the truth is our democracy is managed by oligarch propaganda. And our votes mean very little outside of local elections.

A vote for Trump and a vote for Harris were both going to continue the harms of the MIC and the fossil fuel industry. Yes, Trump is an accelerant. And I voted not to add gasoline.

But the fire was going to burn one way or the other.

Anyway, I think folks that feel ashamed still believe that their voice matters. Which is by design of the political and business class.

I've been watching the sopranos lately and the answer is because I'm secretly in the mafia and the Italians invented everything

My family settled here in 1630. I don't feel shame about being american, I feel dread at the resurrgence of barbaric population control as opposed to compassionate capitalism and universal basic income for all. My entire childhood and participation in civics was a temporary era not the foundation of a beautiful future.

I look at my children and want to apologize to them for what they'll endure after my demise. What a way to wake up...

Because other people will blame you regardless, so it makes you wish you could avoid even telling them

Emotions aren't entirely rational with a clearly thought out process to justify why one should feel them. In any case, its common enough for people to assign the general actions of people within a group to the group as a whole (which isnt really fair or a reflection of reality, but can be pragmatic at times and requires less thought and information than judging on an individual basis, so it makes sense that people's brains are wired up to do it even if its not always desirable). This can get extended to the groups one is a part of oneself, to include those whose membership one did not choose. And the US at the moment has even worse than typical leadership, has a great deal of power for that leadership to abuse, still has free enough media for people within it to stand a good chance of knowing about at least some of it, and if youre here on lemmy youre probably running into people with a somewhat higher than normal awareness of a lot of the historical abuses previous Americans have perpetrated just because it leans left and anti-establishment and those things get talked about a lot in such spaces.

Honestly, in this situation it's likely more performative than an actual feeling people have. It's a good way to acknowledge that someone isn't happy with the impact our country is having on the world.

It’s a sort of in-group cringe.

I haven't felt very patriotic or proud of my country in over 25 years, since I began to slowly understand politics and how things worked within my country. I feel that after everything I've read, everything I've heard about, everything I verified myself by researching and everything everyone has gone through in it with the bads. You can say my control stick has been snapped off and I'm permanently unpatriotic and ashamed to represent my country, knowing the damage that has been done internally as a country and externally everywhere else in the world.

I know it's not my fault, I just do what I can, I pay my taxes knowing it's being pissed away, I work jobs I didn't like doing to feel like I'm contributing despite it not being ultimately worth it because I am helping sustain the motion of this unworthy country. I have voted Sanders, Sanders, Harris in my voting record. And still, the assholes won in the end. But then I feel like, that shit doesn't matter because our track record as a country has shown that the system is in favor of said assholes if they're cunning enough to take advantage of them and that's what we've witnessed many times.

All the while knowing that half of the population in this country, is dead set in taking the rest of us down with them in every negative decision made. While still trying to tell us it is our fault.

You have nuanced take on things. That’s a rarity here on lemmy. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a few of the lemmunists show up to tell you how your take on China is entirely wrong.

And speaking of nuance- the overwhelming lack of it here is pretty much the answer to your question.

Strangely, people seem to hate when blanket definitions are used to describe them, while also seeming to love using them as a weapon against others when under the Manufactured Outrage spell.

For instance, I too voted for Harris, and I’ve been called a gEnOciDe suPpOrTeR, a bOoTLiCkEr, and. bLuEmAga™. Just for voting against a fascist.

Looking for a nuanced take here is like looking for it in a gradeschool classroom. It’s best not to take any of it seriously.

Why is it not our fault? Shouldn't we be responsible for our society? If you're not responsible for your Society then what incentive is there to change it? We should feel guilty. America's only the way it is now because we all failed.

Similar question pointed at you. I now understand it's wrong(though not sure why), but when asking an Asian American where their ancestors are from, they get offended and proudly point out that they're American. Why would you be proud to be an American? Or was I just a few years early in thinking that way?

When the rest of the world hates you for shit a minority of your country did, but succumb to generalized thinking and blame all Americans (looking at you, Europe), a guilt complex can be internalized.

I think it's those who are tricked into thinking their votes are really determining government things who would directly feel at fault for america. Lot's of us know we are nothing more than powerless blobs whose only hope is for WW3 to just happen already so America can be forcibly changed.