this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2025
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] cybervseas@lemmy.world 34 points 4 days ago

Both hobbit and space hobbit defy all odds to inexplicably save the day. It’s apt.

[–] tankplanker@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'd have picked Tom Bombadill over Gandalf to line up against Q

[–] teft@piefed.social 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'd have made Quark a space dwarf (loves gold pressedlatinum, short in stature) and I'd have made romulans space goblins (descended from space elves, evil).

[–] tankplanker@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Romulans could also line up against the Black Numenoreans, fits the split from the good line of Numenoreans, Vulcans. Either is good though

I can see the Quark thing, especially with the Dwavern rings enhancing their lover of material things

[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Scotty might be a space dwarf, but O'Brien is a space hobbit through and through.

[–] Flocklesscrow@lemmy.zip 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)
[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

This makes Keiko being a teacher even funnier.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (2 children)
[–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Wesley certainly is annoying for his first couple appearances, but I don’t really think we should hold season 1 against any TNG character. He has good moments later, and The First Duty is a straight up excellent episode.

On the other hand, hobbits aren’t annoying either. They didn’t ask to get roped into all that nonsense. Elves are the annoying ones in LotR.

[–] JargonWagon@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

"I will take the ring to Mordor, though I do not know the way." - Frodo
(I know, he didn't have much of a choice, but I had to lol)

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[–] GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

OP didnt do Wil Wheaton wrong, the writers that came up with Wesley Crusher were the ones who did Wil Wheaton wrong.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 14 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Isn't the "orc" an uruk-hai and the "goblin" the actual orc? I like the movies, but I'm no expert. Perhaps it's on purpose and part of the joke?
This is also doing hobbits dirty.

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[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I would argue that overt mysticism is what, largely, separates fantasy from science fiction. So something like Star Wars would, in my mind, be far more space fantasy than Star Trek.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Mind melds, Q magic, and the Prophets from DS9 are all overt magic. Like why can only Vulcans do mind melds? If it were science you'd be able to create a technology that would be able to do it. But nah in Star Trek, they don't even try to develop technology to do mind melds because it's something everyone knows only Vulcans can do... because it's magic.

When Q was temporarily human, he mentioned being able to change physics constants. Geordi wasn't like "holy shit that totally changes how we think about science" he's just like "we can't do that because we aren't Q."

The powers that aliens have in Star Trek is treated as being magic by the people in the universe. Some aliens just have magical abilities and nobody questions it.

Meanwhile in Star Wars, all of the powers the Jedi have are explained by microscopic organisms that can be measured with a device. Sure nobody likes that, because we actually do want Star Wars to be fantasy and not science fiction. But (for better or worse) Star Wars is more science fiction and Star Trek is more space fantasy.

They're both space operas, but Star Wars is pretty much pure "science fantasy" where Star Trek is soft science fiction, based in the idea of speculation and morality.

[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 days ago

Vulcans are telepathic and there are technologies in the Star Trek cannon that can allow mind reading or inhibit telepathic ability.

The Q and the Prophets are higher dimensional beings.

These powers are never treated as magic just not currently achievable. In fact there are whole episodes of each series (TNG’s Who Watches the Watchers is one) that deal with the idea that not understanding technology doesn’t make it magic. Most of the crew of Deep Space 9 refer to the Prophets as ‘Wormhole Aliens’ specifically because they don’t believe their powers are magic or godly.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

they arnt using magic lol, Q and prophets are multidimensional beings that can alter reality/change dimensions. its equivalent to a higher tier civilization like type 6-7 ish. also explains some of them like the prophets, organians, douwd are beings that were original organic but evolved to beings of pure energy and thought. star wars on the other hand uses actual magic, look at night sisters.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

There are human telepaths in Star Trek, too, Miranda Jones comes to mind.

There’s also Landru, who built a telepathic computer that controlled the entire population.

Pretty sure the universal translator and combadges all work off telepathy, but that could just be my head cannon.

I do agree it’s all basically space-magic; though.

Also, the engineering in Star Trek is largely more likely than in Star Trek. (For example, warp drive violates causality,)

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

Side rant, Lord Of The rings Orcs are problematically categorized as evil yet are sentient and at least in the movies (I haven't read the books) that is never examined beyond providing the heroes cannon fodder and evil army to pillage the hero's home.

Klingons on the otherhand have been immensely fleshed out as a vibrant complex species with many subcultures that still exhibit a capacity and willingness to engage in violence that feels decidedly inhuman (but also of course quintessentially human too) and Star Trek subverts and confirms the stereotype of Klingons in a confusing way that only truly subversive storytelling bothers to.

Klingons could "just" have been Lord Of The Rings Space Orcs, but the writers of Star Trek have consistently chosen more interesting possibilities to expand behind the initial facade of who Klingons appear to be at first glance. For one humans don't win against the space orcs, they find other ways to end the war/wars that leverage an understanding of Klingons and making political gestures that are salient to their culture.

I don't mean this as a huge takedown or critique I just think the juxtaposition is interesting.

Same thing with the ferengi at least in DS9.

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

never read the book

ARRRGGGGG!!!!!

dies inside

OK, yes in the films the Orcs make little to no sense and are nothing outside of comic relief cannon fodder, but in the books they aren't like that at all. In the books almost everything "evil" is an artificial or evil magic version of something else as a way to counter it, like the Nazgul were an attempt to fight against Eagles. Orc were actually the first elves to come into existence, and the evil bad guy who was Sauron's boss corrupted and tortured them until they were orcs. They are meant to be a counter to elves, but making people out of evil motives and discordant thinking isn't that great an idea, so they aren't very good at this. but they do have their own language and family units, not weird birthing pits, and make their own choices, there's a few longer parts in the books where you're just following the orcs along. after the war the orc's are pretty pissed they got roped into the whole evil army thing, and vow to never follow "big bosses" again. Also Aragorn gives them their own lands. The humans and other beings that fought for Sauron were all roped into it with his lies and cunning, and were pretty upset when they found out all the horrible shit Sauron was up to, in the books no one's really THAT evil, and the orc's and goblins can be pretty goofy, but also very normal humanoid type of things.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Fairly sure that the orcs were able to be compelled of Sauron focused on them and wanted them to do something; as a result of morgoth’s corruption.

After the war, they were freed and could now make their own choices.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 days ago

ok cool good to know some more lore!

[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War actually explore orcish culture and morality, the latter game more than the former. Ultimately, they've spent all their lives in a Morgoth and/or Sauron cult. The ones that don't buy into it are more chill, and some show signs that they could be decent or even heroic in different circumstances. Eltariel is able to make some progress deprogramming a couple, but siding with Talion, Celebrimbor, or even Eltariel mostly just has the orcs cast them as their new Dark Lord. It's probably possible to get the bulk of the orc population into a better place, but it would take many generations of concerted effort at a massive scale. They'd have to replace their entire belief system and most of their way of life just to leave the cult. Additionally, even when not following a Dark Lord, the orcs culturally favor bloodshed to settle conflicts. This isn't too big of a problem with other orcs since they can take shockingly large amounts of punishment without dying, but it's a huge problem when interacting with anyone else. And even that's probably solvable without wholesale destruction of orcish culture, but everything would take so damn long that it's well beyond the scope of LOTR.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

To be fair, Klingons were "just" Space Russians in the TOS era. It wasn't until after after Praxis/Chernobyl when the Soviet allegory ceased being topical, that they had to find other themes for them to embody.

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Even in TOS the Klingons weren't as flat as orcs are in LOTR.

Roddenberry always tried to make sure their motivations made them "heroes in their own story", while Tolkien wrote orcs as evil by nature.

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[–] Elkot@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

As a Scotsman I should be insulted but I always play a dwarf in D&D so I'll allow it

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 11 points 4 days ago

*hot space elf

[–] DontRedditMyLemmy@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (3 children)
[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

That is correct.

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

the Dwarfs in the original fairy tale lore of western Europe were just regular elves who liked mountains and mining.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 3 days ago

dark elves of norse legends would romulans.

[–] Rusty@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago
[–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

Every true Scotsman knows about space

collapsed inline media

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The human one made me chortle.

[–] trolololol@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Could have said "space horny (human)"

[–] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

Would make more sense to compare LOTR to Star Wars because it’s usually given the space opera fantasy title. Star Trek is just regular science fiction.

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[–] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 4 days ago

Should've picked Pippin as the example for fantasy hobbits when you go for (nuisance).

I just figured I tend to like epic quests with funny looking people.

[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 5 points 4 days ago

Humans are the real space orcs

[–] MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 days ago (10 children)

Don’t ruin Star Trek for me. Seriously.

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[–] Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago

How dare you to be so accurate!

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