Ask Lemmy

I'm a parent and do not agree with this approach. Everyone should behave in public - and kids should practice so they can learn. At home, my kids get to behave like animals and we do things where they can behave like kids, like trampoline park, zoo, the arcade, etc. When we are out at places where the kids should behave, we bring them iPads and headphones so they are able to make it through the activity. But it is just rude to let your kid intrude and ruin a dinner, museum, movie, etc for others.

The author admits to have let their kids, who are 2yo and 4yo roam free in restaurants to the point they have ended up in the kitchen, that right there tells you how responsible of a parent she is and how good of an approach hers is.

I understand the thought process and agree to a point - kids are definitely on too tight of leashes these days.

That said, everything I read in that article tells me that the author is a fucking horrible parent and I wouldn't want to ever be in 1000 feet of her demons.

Yes, your kids should have some freedom. No, they shouldn't actively be bothering everyone around them every moment they're out of the house. Teach them respect and kindness, too.

I hate to sound like an old person with my "people these days rant", but it's just people being inconsiderate, and it's everywhere. People stand in doorways and elevators, make people behind them on the road wait while they turn from the wrong lane, cut in lines, run red lights because they don't want to wait, etc.

This is simply people being selfish and not wanting to parent, there's no difference. There are places where kids can run wild and be themselves, but it's not literally everywhere. Remember that the end goal is to raise not a child, but an empathetic, functioning member of society. So start teaching them early...

I say fuck people like this. And if you are people like this, then fuck you too.

Public space is for public, not just your kids. If you let your kids run wild, then you are sacrificing other people's freedom.

Also, this is how entitled little bitches are created. Do you want your kid to be an entitled little bitch?

Some of these seem fine, some of them not so fine. Letting kids run around at a restaurant? I'd call that not fine. Other people are paying to be there and they probably don't want to deal with your kids running around and past their table. The concerns about servers tripping over them are real, even if it's not actually happening. I suspect the servers would prefer not to have to dodge someone's kids to prevent that from happening.

The fountain? Not a problem, no one was being inconvenienced there, no one was paying to be there and having their time disrupted. They weren't creating a dangerous situation.

The barbecue? Not a problem, they were invited, presumably by someone who understands what they're getting into, and they can be uninvited, or not invited next time if it's a problem.

Bottom line is, there's places where it's appropriate to let your kids run around and be wild, and there's places where it's not, and if your kids aren't capable of not doing it in places where it isn't appropriate, that's a problem.

Just look at any public restroom, where the sinks are too high for them to reach

Well, maybe your two-year-old isn't entitled to low sinks in a public restroom not specifically designed for children (e.g. at a school)? That shit costs money, why would they install low sinks just so kids who amount for a tiny percentage of the users can use them without parental assistance?

Let them run and play and fall and get scrapes, yes. Don't be a helicopter parent. But when other people are around, respect the social contract.

I witnessed a dad (friend of a friend at a group dinner) nearly get in a fist fight because someone asked him to corral his kids that were interfering with their meal. Madness.

Our 5 kids are grown, but there’s no way in hell I’d have let them run wild. When parents do that, it is one of the most annoying things about going places in public. It seems every time we go to eat someplace, a family with a gaggle of rowdy kids gets seated immediately near us.

An unintended side effect of making backyards a luxury item, public spaces a pay-to-play, and community playgrounds homeless shelters

My opinion?

I doubt such a person will ever be able to realize public space is not hers and is not there for her to use as she pleases. Public space is, well, public and shared between everybody and as such must be used with consideration to others. What would that incredibly tolerant (towards herself/her kids) lady say if I was to, say, come sit right next to her and loudly fart while she is eating her sandwich?

She can let her kids splash (and fart as loudly and) as much as they/she wants in her own home. Heck, she can even let them burn her house down if she thinks it's good for them. But what will she say the day her kids get hurt doing some stupid shit like that?

Does she really need a fucking 'handbook' to understand the cosmic level of stupidity she's reaching for? That's so unbelievably clueless and egoistical. But whats so sad is to realize it's not even surprising anymore.

I will have one last thought for those poor kids, just imagining the kind of teens and young adults she's preparing them to be :(

The framing of this article is all wrong. There aren't just two choices: discipline or wild abandon. There's times and places for both. Five pm at the colorful hippy burrito spot with dinosaur toys and a large play area, let them run free. Out at a special dinner with family bring them with, set your timer for their ability to keep it together and make adjustments as needed. If they don't meet the standard, thats cool. Not their fault and probably not even your fault. Do a vibe check and leave if needed.

Hell, I'm all for your kid doing frog jumps down the grocery aisle, but be a sentinal and see if there's a person in that aisle that would care. You can read the people who are delighted by the child's exuberance and those who want nothing to do with it. I'm not a big fan of screens, but they have their time and place like on the six hour flight.

Any case, there's only so much you can do when parenting. Creating a safe connection for them is so important and then trusting you to see them, receive them, and make the unknown a little bit safer is all a tall task.

The author's critical approach to what is 'polite' is all well and good, but I have reservations about what she considers the limit.

As for the 'doing no harm to others', she must recognize that the harm her children do may not be readily apparent. When I've got a massive migrane, I don't want to hear her kids screaming in the next booth over, but I also don't want to have to confront her about it and risk her screaming also. Better to sit and suffer until I can't.

My questions to the author would be:

"what happens when your kids get hurt because they were someplace kids weren't expected to be, or doing something they weren't expected to be doing?" Do you, the parent, rush to their aid and castigate the adult that was near them or that was the initial cause of the physcial harm? Do you apologize to the adult instead? How about if they break things? Do you immediately open your wallet and start handing out cash or do you fall back on "they're just kids" and let others shoulder the burden of property loss because your choices?

Don't have to deal with this anymore, because mine are all at least tweenage.

It's a balancing act, and sometimes running around a little is fine this day in this space, but not another day in a similar space.

I'm not going to act like I've never given my kids an iPad to keep them quiet for a while, but it would be refreshing to see MORE kids playing trains and Hot Wheels instead of sitting in front of a screen.

It's much harder for the kids to create their own fun when a device just spews nonstop entertainment at then. Why use your own imagination, when there's always someone else's available to watch, play, listen to?

There's a HUGE gray area between "children should be silent and invisible" and "HOW DID YOU GET ON THE ROOF OF WALMART?!?". Neither of those extremes are good, and sometimes, as parents we learn during or afterwards that maybe this wasn't the best place to play Hot Wheels. But a lot of the time, it's not hurting anyone.

1- this is cursed

2- i dont think this belongs in asklemmy

Letting children run around is fine as long as they are well-behaved.

The writer of the article is treating child rearing as if it requires PhD level child psychology. It doesn't.

A child's behavior is almost always ok if it is safe, non-destructive, legal, and NOT OFFENSIVE TO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE SAME SPACE. It doesn't even matter if the other people's idea of "offensive" seems reasonable or not. If their children are bothering others, a responsible parent will either curb their behavior or take them elsewhere.

The writer apparently doesn't understand that last part.

I raised my kids to be independent and was not very controlling - they think I was pretty hands off because they don't remember the earliest years - but I can't imagine doing that without literally teaching them what was reasonable behavior for different spaces. We did restaurant training, sit in your chair, use the utensils, don't yell. In stores, "put your hands behind" was the cue, not "don't touch" because it's easier to tell them to do something than to not do something.

At the park though? My only rule was don't show off, don't do anything to show off. If you want to climb the tree because you want to climb the tree, go for it but no "look at me I'm in the tree" because then you will probably go past what's safe for you. When they fell down while running ask "you gonna be ok?" not "are you ok?"

Compared to their friends' parents, the younger ones think I'm nearly neglectful but it's more than my mom did, parenting right now while there are fewer kids around us so weird. So many parents are so controlling even of their high schoolers. You are trying to raise competent adults, they have to have the space to make decisions and mistakes to do that.

I fart exclusively in elevators and crowded busses. Join me!

Fine, but don't get mad when I laugh at them tripping and falling.