this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
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[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 82 points 11 hours ago (8 children)

I get the vague impression that this is meant to subtly influence western society into believing that the masses aren’t truly people, that only the ones steering our collective wheels are actually human. Green arrow basically said as much for like… 5 seasons. Then it got weirder.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 40 points 10 hours ago

There were a few moments in the Marvel Universe. Spider-Man even had his first movie based off the common man and results of super hero actions to create new baddies. But the one that stands out to me is in Iron Man 3, where Tony is going to fire on one of the bad guys in the compound and the guy throws down his gun and says, "Honestly, I hate working here. They are so weird."

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 26 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

I get the vague impression that this is meant to subtly influence western society into believing that the masses aren’t truly people

Tinfoil hat theory would be that the evil leaders of real life (the ceos, the billionaires, etc) are planting the seeds so that if their plans fail and a revolution comes, they won't be summarily executed

[–] nanoswarm9k@lemmus.org 13 points 10 hours ago

What of they don't have to intentionally plant seeds? They just cancel anything that makes their power fantasy uncomfortable? :3

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 11 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

Could you imagine?

“For the crimes of economy-scale larceny, murder, environmental collapse, bribery, tax evasion, and, uhh, sexual battery of a pack of golden retrievers, how do you plea?”

“C’mon, I’m just a little guy!”

“D’aww”

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[–] redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

That show was so damn weird. Felt like the writers were trapped on an island where they were forced to keep writing about the island

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 hours ago

“The island is all that we know, and we write what we know. Send help.”

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[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 43 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (6 children)

For me, the best version of this is Avatar: The Last Airbender. Aang spends an entire arc lamenting how he may need to spill blood and kill the Fire Lord. Meanwhile the very same Aang had previously sunk an entire naval fleet single-handedly.

How many thousands of sailors, most of them probably people drafted against their will, did you kill that day Aang? Remember when you literally sliced entire ships in half? Your hands cut through steel, would you have even felt the flesh you were cutting through? Or how about all those ships you sank? A fair number sank instantly. You think everybody got out safely from those ships? Or how about that time you destroyed that giant drill machine, the one manned by thousands of soldiers, outside the walls of Ba Sing Se? You think everyone managed to miraculously escape that fireball? And those are just the major battles. How about the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of fire nation soldiers you casually tossed around like rag dolls with your powers of air, water, and earth during dozens of minor skirmishes? What are the odds you managed to toss all these men around like playthings and NOT have a few of them have their skulls bashed open on rocks when they hit the ground wrong?

The point of this is not to condemn Aang's actions through the series. His actions were fully justified, as he was fighting a war against an expansionist colonial military power. What he did was an objective good. But by the time he's hand wringing about having to kill Fire Lord Ozai, Aang had almost certainly already taken hundreds of lives. Hell, he probably killed hundreds just in that final climactic battle against the airship armada. The Hindenburg disaster saw 1/3 of the passenger and crew parish. And that was from an airship that crashed when it was already landing and close to the ground. Aang was dropping ships from miles in the sky. Maybe some soldiers with fire bending powers could somehow slow their own descent enough to survive, maybe they had some parachutes. But there's zero chance that Armada didn't have a fatality rate at least comparable to the Hindenburg disaster.

So Aang blithely kills hundreds of conscripts without a second thought. But then he has a crisis of conscience that takes multiple episodes to resolve, and that crisis of conscience is all about...Fire Lord Ozai? This is like if someone nonchalantly participated in the Firebombing of Dresden and then suddenly developed complex moral doubts about putting a bullet in Hitler's head. Aang had already killed hundreds of people that Ozai had sent to their deaths. No one was forcing Ozai. He wasn't a conscript. He had full autonomy; he's the absolute ruler of the Fire Nation. He doesn't even have a Congress or Parliament to answer to. He has absolute total moral responsibility for every evil thing the Fire Nation has done. Yet, when it comes to actually holding the powerful accountable, suddenly Aang wants to talk about the morality of killing.

[–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 31 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

Aang was very explicitly not in control of himself during the invasion of the north, and he became scared of his power due to his experiences with the avatar state.

The whole moral conundrum is about him consciously choosing to kill the Fire Lord. Yes, he most likely caused deaths before, but not consciously & deliberately.

[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 12 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Sure, there is that difference. But the series doesn't even address the fact that he's already killed hundreds of people. Intentionally or not, it's still absurd to hand wring about killing when you've already killed hundreds of people, accidentally or not, and the one person you're worrying about taking down is literal genocidal maniac. To me that just sounds like not being willing to take responsibility for your own actions. Intentionally or not, Aang killed hundreds of people. And it's not like he never went into the Avatar state again after taking out the Northern fleet. Hell, he fought Ozai while in the Avatar state. Maybe he should have just "accidentally" killed Ozai while in the Avatar state and just washed his hands of moral culpability, just like he did all the other people he killed before then.

Regardless, Aang found a way to make peace with the fact that he had taken hundreds of lives. But when the person in question is someone of power and renown? Then it becomes something to fret over.

[–] Nelots@lemmy.zip 7 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Hell, he fought Ozai while in the Avatar state. Maybe he should have just “accidentally” killed Ozai while in the Avatar state

Remember that he didn't just enter the avatar state during the northern water tribe attack, he spiritually fused with the raging ocean spirit. I feel like that gives him a bit more moral innocence than just straight up killing people on his own. It's also worth noting he almost did exactly this. After smacking his back on the rock and reawakening his avatar state, he barely regained control before straight up killing Ozai.

That said... I actually hate the way he solved his unwillingness to kill the fire lord. An entire season of struggling over it and then suddenly some deus ex machina lion turtle pops up out of nowhere with no foreshadowing and just gives him the answer right before the final fight. Super lame and unearned ending to his moral struggle imo.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 12 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Plus I thought Avatar Yang Chen's argument was amazing. She told Aang that his duties to protect people as the Avatar outweighed his spiritual need to be a pacifist.

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[–] nialv7@lemmy.world 10 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Clearly some people's lives are more valuable than others' /s

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[–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

wrong bracket in the Link.

Also: good writeup, I like it :)

[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 hours ago

Thanks! Fixed.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 30 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

This is because the villain has slain 69,421 people. Killing him would give the hero the same bodycount, and thus make them exactly the same.

[–] NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org 11 points 8 hours ago (1 children)
[–] qarbone@lemmy.world 12 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

69,421.5

Edit: Please update when you're fully dead, OP, so I can finalize the new count.

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[–] brown567@sh.itjust.works 27 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

To be fair, if my kill count was at 69420, I'd need a REALLY good reason to kill one more

If I were at 69419, he'd be dead without a second thought

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 14 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

If you missed 69420, don't worry about it, because 69422 is 69420, too.

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[–] slaacaa@lemmy.world 21 points 10 hours ago (4 children)
[–] Nangijala@feddit.dk 13 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I played that game with my best friend and we hated every single second of it. To me, this is the game version of GoT season 8.

I still find it incredible that Druckmann stuck to his guns and copy pasted this terribly executed storyline into the second season of the show. Idiot learned nothing. I'm glad I decided to skip the second season and just enjoy the first season as a stand alone. Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey did a great job as Joel and Ellie, but I sincerely doubt that even they could save the used toilet paper that is the script for Last of Us 2.

[–] slaacaa@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

Same. I was looking forward to it so much, loved the first one, but this ruined my mood for weeks during the already shitty covid & lockdown period. And not in a “sad story” way, but in a “I waited years and I got disappointed” way.

Now the negative reaction of general audience to the second season of the show demonstrates how the story just sucks regardless of the medium, but gamers were gaslighted into thinking that only transphobe incels hated the game. Well, I guess not.

I loved the gameplay and the graphics, but the story is just badly written and utter shit. My wife loves to watch me play, but was scratching her head in the final hours of this game, trying to make sense of this mess.

And this would be fine, art is subjective, they took a risk, it didn’t work out - but if you dare point this out, you get branded a hater/bigot/etc and your opinion is discredited. Well fuck them, I paid full price for this game on day 1, and I didn’t like it. My opinion is valid, so I’m going to repeat it as many times as I want to.

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[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 7 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Never played that game, what is the context?

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[–] kaiserZak@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago

I immediately thought about this xd

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[–] Nangijala@feddit.dk 19 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

Strong Last of Us 2 vibes.

That game had such an interesting setup and completely fucking fumbled every single second.

The idea of a split story arc where two hurt people are hunting one another for revenge and how it devastates the both of them in the end is so cool, but then it's written with the emotional intelligence of a five year old and completely fucking missing the concept of subtlety and earned pay offs. Everything is forced, everything is overly mean spirited to the point where you just kinds hate everybody and roots for no one. You're literally forced as the player to torture and kill several people and animals throughout the game.

And when you finally get to the climax there's a lame as fuck "revenge is bad mkay" message tagged on to the end. It rings hollow and it isn't earned. Such an immature script trying to tackle such an interesting concept.

It really shows you that there are no bad ideas, only bad execution.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 19 points 8 hours ago (14 children)

"You should feel bad for utilizing these gameplay mechanics we designed the game around. You monster!"

[–] Nangijala@feddit.dk 10 points 6 hours ago (3 children)

I distinctly remember them claiming that you had the choice to spare the dogs, but they would viciously attack you and blow your cover every chance you got so you literally didn't have any other choice than to kill them sometimes. Then there were the plot related actions where the story took your choices away from you and forced you to kill a dog and torture a woman to death as Ellie.

And the ironic thing was that they claimed they wanted you to feel bad for killing people in the game and had the npcs yelling out the names of the people you killed, but I literally felt nothing.

Meanwhile when I played the first game and got to the hospital scene, I was so fucking devastated because I didnt want to kill the fireflies. Up until that point you had mostly killed zombies and deranged people who were directly putting you and ellie in danger. But the fireflies felt different. I was so devastated making my way to Ellie. The game did a fantastic job showing how Joel was crossing a line in his humanity in order to protect the one person in the world that gave his life meaning. It was at once a very beautiful and very tragic climax to a story about humanity in dire circumstances. So beautifully made.

Ain't gonna sit there and cry over some random dog or some dumb npc named Jason when I'm forced to plow down hundreds of them while rarely if ever getting to attack zombies becuase they're barely present in the game by comparison.

If you want to treat human lives as precious in your game, don't make your player kill them by the hundreds the whole time. Fuck man. I sometimes wonder if Druckmann really wrote the first game at all or if he just took credit for some underling's work because I struggle to believe that the same writer who wrote this emotionally complex game is also the same writer who pooped out its sequel.

Sorry for long rant. I just really hate that stupid game.

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[–] blackstampede@sh.itjust.works 18 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Media targeted at a large audience tends to dumb moral and philosophical conundrums down to the simplest possible gesture instead of taking the ideas seriously.

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[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 18 points 10 hours ago (5 children)

Batman: "I would never take the life of even the most evil of villains" Breaks the neck of a petty thief Snaps the femur of a low level Mafia grunt

[–] TallonMetroid@lemmy.world 13 points 9 hours ago

Listen, kicking mooks 10 feet into the air and then shooting them with the Bat-tank's anti-tank gun is perfectly safe because he's using rubber rounds!

[–] Zorque@lemmy.world 12 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Ah, the usual "I saw that scene from Snyder's BatmanVSuperman so I feel I can authoritatively speak to the entire character"

He has gone through probably hundreds of writers at this point, all with their own interpretations. But generally, when they stick to the "I hate killing and guns" type, he's not breaking mooks over his knee Bane style. It's not universal, and some of the writing is just bad. But that doesn't define the character anywhere except the minds of people who just want something to shit on.

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[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 15 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

because they want us to kill each other, the low ranking riffraff and feel nothing over that, but not the big badd bbillionaires and friends

[–] ahornsirup@feddit.org 15 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Usually the henchmen are actively attacking the protagonists, while the villain is already (seemingly) defeated by the time this line is uttered.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 hours ago

Not always though. Sometimes it's just a guy protecting someone and they murder them. I seriously think about that guy going to work that day and how his family felt about how they died. They're not necessarily protecting good people, but it's just a job.

[–] sepi@piefed.social 11 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Batman is super full of shit in this department

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 10 points 3 hours ago

Batman allow innocent to be harmed just so he can uphold his moral high ground.

[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 10 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

It always pisses me off when someone defending their life, or the lives of others, in a show is somehow a monster for stopping the threat. (Or it is somehow 'honorable' to not kill someone actively murdering others.)

Fuck no. Stop the murderer, rapist, or terrorist using as much force as is necessary. Little Timmy will be so much better off with parents who are still alive, Susan will be happy her husband wasn't murdered, etc etc.

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[–] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 10 points 6 hours ago (7 children)

Fucking Moon Knight. That dude’s whole thing is killing mother fuckers at the top, he prides himself on being a murderer of murderers and crime bosses and he’s not going to give a fuck what you think of his moral stance, yet at the end of the Disney+ series he decides he’s a fucking universalist or some shit? Fuck that! Moon Knight is a straight up murderer, he would be the first person to tell you that he is a murderer and that he don’t give a fuck how anyone feels about it.

Also, they didn't use the song Dead Moon Night by Dead Moon when there was a dead Moon Knight. Fuck that show.

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[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 10 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

I found Watchdogs 2 weird in this regard. You steal money from random people, who often struggle themselves, steal cars like nothing, murder a suburb’s worth of people, and still you’re “the good guys”?

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 hours ago

Trevor in GTA5 was notable for being the only protagonist in those sort of games who remained in character no matter what you did during gameplay.

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[–] thatradomguy@lemmy.world 9 points 4 hours ago
[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 8 points 4 hours ago

I have no idea why Jedi Survivor decided to do that with one random empire guy.

Everybody else got their fucking arms and legs cut off.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 8 points 5 hours ago

Fallout 3. Slaughter the vault of police officers (who you grew up knowing), but grow a conscience when you meet the overseer. Take out armies of enclave soldiers, but let the weirdo Colonel Autumn walk away.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 8 points 8 hours ago
[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 6 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 15 minutes ago)

Nigel powers: look at you, you don't even have a name tag! You don't stand a chance. Put your guns down. That's right, put them down on the floor.

[–] twinnie@feddit.uk 5 points 9 hours ago

Another reason for me to hate Spectre.

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