Wrong dude. That was Abraham in Genesis.
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If Jesus is God and God told Abraham then i guess it's technically the right dude.
only jesus said there is a new covenant with him, which nearly all denominations interpret to mean the rite of circumcision is a thing of the past
... Unless you're in Protestant dominated USAmerica, where male genital mutilation remains a widespread, common practice.
Roughly 80% of American boys/men are circumcized, almost all at birth.
I can provide either statistics or pics as proof, your choice.
EDIT: There's also a whole history of basically junk/fraudulent science in the US being used as a validation of this practice, much of which basically claims that having your whole hood intact makes you more vulnerable to skin infections and STDs.
This is false, but Americans are quite good at doing motivated reasoning and convincing themselves it is objective critical analysis.
no i know. i'm part of that statistic. my parents weren't consulted ahead of time. it was simply done "for health reasons"
... are you saying you don't want pics... =[
/s /s /s lol
I edited in a bit more info... yet another wonderful amazing lie I had to figure out entirely on my own that my fundie parents told me with utter confidence.
None of that is for (directly) religious reasons though; Americans circumcise their sons because a cereal company founder thought it would prevent masturbation, and Americans are removed apparently
... It is an unchallenged remnant of many things, a large chunk of those things having puritanical religious origins.
And almost all those religions happen to be Jesus-centric.
Kellogg was just a more recent large scale eh... reinforcment of the norm. He was inspired by his particular Christian views... 7th Day Adventist.
Like, yes, its not as direct as many modern preachers constantly doing sermons about the virtuosity of circumcision... but even still, I can easily say that the reason the practice is unchallenged is that American Protestant Christians of many, many different Denominations... well they strongly promote traditionalism for the sake of tradition, not questioning authority figures, actively rejecting modern science and medicine.
Like uh... Max Weber's christian protestant work ethic explanation of the peculiarities of American culture in regards to attitudes toward work and politics and many other cultural features... isn't 100% perfect... but it is a very good starting point to understand why American Protestantism is sociologically distinct to other societies.
But that's not religious. It's an american thing.
It is an American thing that arose from, and persists because of how Americans 'do' Christianity.
As I said in another post, start with Max Weber, and then explore more of the history of how Christianity and Christian Denominations, cults, sects, revival movements, etc, have shaped the country as a whole, in ways that are distinct from how other kinds of Christianity have shaped other countries in the last 300 or so years.
Like... the whole reason we have the First Amendment, the freedom of religion part... was mainly to make it so that none of the varying Christian Denominations would be able to use the government to censor or outright oppress or murder each other.
Read the journals of the founding fathers, federalist papers, etc, if you doubt that. See how most of them were Deists, who... just believed in a big creator God, but basically no theology of any particular Christian branch... the neutral middle ground.
America was largely initially founded by populations of varying kinds of extreme Christian Sects fleeing persecution in Europe... and a lot of our early history is... those sects persecuting and mistreating, or at best, barely tolerating and competetively trying to proselytize, other sects that just over here now, on a different continent... as well as all the indigenous populations... and the imported slaves.
Which has fuck-all to do with Jesus, the meme is still incorrect
Pentecostal holiness denominations are both small and overrepresented in policy making
edit: oh yeah and they teach the opposite of what jesus did
Jesus' deity is pretty famously rejected by the Jewish faith.
Not as readily recognizable; but on the other hand, if you recognize Jesus then you already know this is incorrect.
Where’s that painting of Moses with the tablets? That’s probably better
Circumcision is not a Christian practice.
It's popular in America because some 19^th^ Century RFK jr style health freaks convinced everybody that masturbation caused disease.
Fun fact: Adventists (Kellogg's religion) run the second largest system of Christian schools, behind the Catholics. It definitely won't leave you weird and sexually repressed for the rest of your life.
Jesus was in fact the one to say "yeah all this old rules don't matter, just focus on these two: don't be a dick and don't be a fucking dick, god damn"
And that is why they crucified him, The Old Testament Repeatedly says "Be a dick against gays, infidels and non-virgin women who are not your wife. And whoever comes to say otherwise, be the most absolute dick against him".
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17
Genital mutilation for all your babies! Use myths and lies to explain why it’s necessary!
You mean to tell me it's not physically impossible to clean the dick if the foreskin isn't cut off? My whole uncircumcised life has been a lie!
Actually there was a huge debate among early Christians whether circumcision was still required because Jesus never spoke on the issue (or if he did, there was no verifiable record of it).
To crudely summarize:
The earliest Christians were primarily Jews, so they were already circumcized as required by Judaism so it was a non-issue. However unlike Judaism where you're almost always born into the religion, Christianity actively encourages adult conversion, so as more non-Jews (e.g. Greeks) began to identify as Christians, the circumcision issue became a conundrum. Some felt Christianity was a branch of Judaism and as such Jewish practices like circumcision were still required, whereas others objected because they saw Christianity as a new approach to Judaism, or even as a separate religion altogether (circumcision specifically was hotly debated due to such issues as adult circumcision being more, shall we say, unappealing than infant circumcision, plus getting circumcized would "out" non-Jews in nude spaces like bath houses, which was at best awkward and at worst deadly).
The earliest followers of Jesus thought Jesus was going to return in their lifetimes, so these types of issues were not discussed (or at least not resolved) by the original founders and proselytizers (researchers have determined the Gospels weren't even composed until well after everyone involved was dead), but as generations passed it became clear that the Second Coming actually may not happen anytime soon, so practical issues of "how to establish a new religion (is it even a new religion or just a Jewish sect???)" turned into gigantic internal debates for the community. That's what much of the New Testament is: letters back and forth trying to interpret the words of Jesus to resolve doctrinal conflict. In other words, the New Testament is basically four different versions of the story of Jesus (Mark, Matthew and Luke which were based on Mark and a lost "Gospel X", and John), followed by a curated back-and-forth commentary section debating issues of the day such as circumcision and women's role in the church, and controversially capped off by the (theorized) hallucinations of a hermit tripping balls off donated moldy bread.
The history of the New Testament (how it was written and later compiled, early texts that were lost or discarded, and all the doctrinal conflicts that boiled over into variously incidents of geopolitical chaos) is fascinating and seriously worth exploring.
That's fascinating. Can you recommend any books on the subject? The easier to read the better!
I don't know if I'd call it "easy" reading, but this is a well-regarded college textbook that's popular in "Christianity 101" religion classes (so at least it's entry-level and doesn't assume prior knowledge on the topic):
For something much lighter, Extra Credits did a video series on early Christian schisms that mentions the circumcision debate:
I'm far from a religious scholar (just someone who enjoys history from time to time), so I'd be curious if other folks have additional recommendations.
Don't eat pork, don't eat shell fish, don't work on Sundays (or Saturdays depending on who you talk to), no sex before marriage, don't masturbate ...... but you can bend the rules and get close to doing those things and even get away with breaking the rule because God is an idiot that can easily be outwitted or deceived with human logic.
And this is just a small list of rules and regulations .... there's a whole list of things that are not allowed in the bible but Christian leaders have made workarounds on everything because they are smarter than God.
My favorite one is do not boil a calf in its mother's milk, which has been interpreted to mean no cheese or butter on beef.
Which means that cooking and eating a bacon cheeseburger yourself after sundown *on a friday while wearing cotton underwear and polyester pants is 4 sins, 3 of which are burger
Circumcision of children should be highly illegal. Any health practitioner doing the procedure should be criminally liable for assault and malpractice.
It's fucking crazy bro my parents were believers but weren't actually subscribed to any traditional religion and them mfers still trimmed my shit
Blame Kellogg
And ultimately Christian sexual repression
So there is that story in Genesis where the sons of Jacob have an army of 318 men circumcised so they could follow their religion.
Just think they probably put then into a pile, a small little mountain of foreskins.
Found some really nuts messianic Christian family on Facebook, and the mom just gives birth on the back of the skoolie they live in without any medical care, thankfully they only have one son but the father circumcised him with a razor by himself on the bus, and mom thinks that is a swell idea and wrote up a manual about it for her website. They drive around putting up religious signs and begging donations off their fellow believers to live on, and I want to call CPS so badly but I don't know how to find them. It's SO much worse than that too.
"And turn some of them into facial cream in about two thousand years. Have celebrities rave about it in an extremely odd way for a few weeks on TV, then mysteriously let it be broadly forgotten."
I got the meme but this is Jesus. He was himself circuncised since he was jewish. It was alredy a thing before him. oh, and christians don't do that
I can understand desert people coming up with some excuse to preform the operation because sand is coarse and rough and irritating… and it gets everywhere.
But it’s just nicer to think they wanted their kids to have the most attractive cocks in the village
You know, I have a personal theory that this particular law was established as a measure of genital hygiene, since without the foreskin dirt does not accumulate on the glans; but over the years it was distorted until it became a divine mandate that is just for the sake of it.
The vast majority of the Bible was simply guidelines to keep people healthy and happy. All this "the skin of the pig is unclean" stuff? They hadn't figured out germs yet. No sex until marriage? No contraceptives, so don't create in cared for children. I won't waste my time on it but, when examined in context, this is the vast majority, if not the entirety of the bible: lessons on how to be safe and happy relative the time, made digestable and relevant to the common person.
Sucks they had to get there via fear of imaginary, post-life pain, and it sucks twice as hard that they've neglected to rationalize that part as the rest of the belief structure has modernized.
The best way to test the resolve of your fellow cultists is by making them commit to very rigorous rules that affect their life significantly.
I mean if you can get them to cut of a piece of their reproductive organs, you have insanely loyal followers. Also resisting something to eat that is very tasty, of it said 'don't eat shit' it's not a very hard rule to follow.
Somehow this works like a drug for some people. There a reason that many rehabs are ran by religious fellows.
Guy was just pissed off that nobody had gotten around to inventing Spaghetti-Os and figured this would be close enough.
"We're going to cut off (part of) your Johnson!"
Fucking Nazarenes. Nothing changes.
Casual reminder that many religious rules were just basic Hygiene practices from prehistoric times which were later absorbed into the local beliefs.
The whole “hygiene” and circumcision is a myth and a lie. Your foreskin has no bearing on your ability to wash your dick
The whole “hygiene” and circumcision is a myth and a lie.
It's not like there microbiology science existed thousands of years ago. It may have been a hygiene practice because people thought it was helpful. Bloodletting is BS as well and people thought it helped drain the body's poisons.
Your foreskin has no bearing on your ability to wash your dick
I imagine the whole circumcision thing makes sense when you're wandering the desert for years and there's not a whole lot of water around, but other than that, yeah.
How tf did this even start? Some guy was like, "you know the tip of the dick? Cut it off your children" and they just went along with it