No Stupid Questions

Marriage? Why, it's the greatest weapon in any noble's arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.

Marriage isn't about love; that's a peasant's fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.

When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father's bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.

Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you've created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.

Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.

Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.

So you ask what's the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?

Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.

Taxes. Health Insurance. Visa.

Getting married doesn't have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they're doing it for that sake, but it's not necessary.

Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.

What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.

And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.

I didn't get married for the love or the religious reasons, it's just way easier when you buy a house together. Now, if I die, all my stuff automatically belongs to my wife.

We got married on a Tuesday morning at the municipal building at 8:30 making it free. The only thing we spent money on was the rings.

Jus an fyi, getting married costs basically nothing unless you have a wedding. It literally costs like $55 for the certificate at the court. You don't have to have a wedding that costs $50K. I know multiple people who literally just had some people over and got pizzas.

My marriage cost about 200 Euros and all of that went into Starfleet uniforms for the two of us. Our reason for getting married was financial, but we'd been engaged for 2 decades. Just hadn't gotten around to actually doing it, heh. Nothing's actually changed about our relationship since then because of course, why would it, we'd been together for 22 years before saying yes. But it's just a nice, grand gesture to proclaim to the world in uncertain terms that you intend to stay together.

People have already pointed out the legal and financial aspects. But I also want to address the philosophical aspect of your question, which I think you had in mind. And I think the answer I would give you is this one:

Marriage has the meaning that you assign to it.

I strongly believe that if we got rid of any legal and financial benefits of marriage, even if we made it explicitly illegal, there would still be a bunch (or even a lot) of people who would get married.

I would compare it to a house fire. If my house was burning (and there were no living beings in it) and I could save 5 things, what would I save? What would you save? I would take, for example, my favorite soft toy from when I was a kid, and my old box filled with diaries. Is this worth any money? No. Does it have any value? To me, it does. To you, it doesn't. Maybe you are a very rational person that isn't attached to anything (or to nothing material) and you would indeed make the smartest choices, saving your passport and documents and money. Maybe you would save a small gift that someone important has given you. Maybe you would save the first guitar you ever bought. You save whatever has value and meaning to you. And these things have solely the meaning and value that you have attached to it.

Likewise, people have different value and meaning attached to marriage. If you look at it from a rational, logical side - it has its legal and financial perks and benefits and if they weren't there, getting married would make no sense. But things don't have to make sense. The meaning we assign to rituals, things, concepts, aren't necessarily rational. They are, however, deeply personal.

So, as a side note, please beware of ridiculing people for their views on marriage or weddings, just like you wouldn't want to ridicule or belittle someone for other things that mean a lot to them. Always sharing the last piece of bread. Always giving a coin to a homeless person. Having a breakfast for 30 minutes every morning. A good night kiss on the nose from their partner. Drawing a dick in the first snow of the winter. Some things mean a lot to people even if they do not rationally make sense.

In the case of marriage, of course, some of the meaning comes from culture, history, and tradition. Marriage might have had different purposes than it has now, and surely the origins weren't that romantic. (Not saying, however, that marriage has to be romantic.) But it is there. It is important to some people simply because they have, at some point in their life, decided it is important for some reasons, rational or irrational, social, cultural, and hopefully personal too. To them, it makes sense, it has meaning, it has value. And whatever marriage or a wedding ceremony mean - you decide.

So the question you should be asking is not whether or not you should get married, it is what marriage means to you. Does it have any benefit or value in your eyes? Are the legal benefits enough for you to get married? What is your stance on divorce? Do you feel like you would get "closer together" with your partner? Would you feel it would make things harder to separate? There are a ton on questions like these that you can ask yourself, I hope you get the jist. There are not right or wrong answers. The only thing that is important is that the meaning you assign to marriage is (about) the same as the meaning your partner assigns to marriage. You can both not care about a spiritual meaning, but just get married for the benefits. You can both be a type of "whatever happens, we don't get divorced, til death do us part". You can be "we'll keep reevaluating whether we still belong together". You can also be "we get married because we have children and this is practical". Or "we get married because I am hot and you are rich and when one of us loses their asset we split". Or "we just want a fancy huge ass party to show our love in this very moment and celebrate it with our friends and whatever comes afterwards is secondary". It doesn't matter what your view is, it matters that you guys agree.

when it costs so much money.

What? Why should it? We married cheap, no rings or anything, it costs next to nothing.

It gives us certain rights and protections, tax benefits, etc. Hospital visitations, legal stuff, the ability to get in your own queue for immigration, and it's a sign to each other that you both are committed to each other for the long haul. It's a sign of trust.

I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.

Getting married doesn't have to cost virtually anything. Really just the application fee to get a marriage license. The specific price will vary by state, and even by county (within the US, not sure how it works outside). Where I live, you can go to a courthouse and get married for $35.

If you plan to have kids, there are a lot of legal reasons why it's just a lot simpler to be married. The same applies without them, to a lesser degree, but with kids it's just so much more of a hassle to not be married.

You're right that you can achieve most (maybe even all?) legal benefits of marriage through trusts, wills, etc. But that's a hell of a lot more work, and the lawyer fees, filing fees, and application fees are almost certainly going to cost you more than a cheap courthouse marriage. Not to mention the added work for yourself.

Beyond all that, though, the single biggest reason I wanted to get married and have a wedding with lots of friends and family was to stand up in front of everyone and profess my love for my (now) wife, let her do the same for me, then have big party with all our friends and family to celebrate it. There's nothing wrong with spending money to throw a party for something you want to celebrate.

The point is the legal benefits and publicly declaring your love and commitment, if you care about that.

You can spend as little as you want, if you only care about the legal status. But since you are probably asking about the usual big wedding - it's really just throwing a party to celebrate the act. It's not mandatory. Invite people you want to party with and celebrate life in a way you want.

What can suck about it is the peer pressure from parents and other people to do it the way they want, to do it "properly".

I’m getting married this summer, for my girlfriend and I it is purely practical. We own a house together, but because of how the laws are here in Denmark my mom would inherit my 50% instead of it going to my future wife in case I die. We could pay a lawyer to make a document that’ll du the same, but it’ll cost the same as the party we’re throwing instead.

My partner and I are similar to you. We couldn't care less. I proposed to her, she said yes, we're happy with the way things are, nothing needed to change.

However. Legally speaking, when you get married, you are considered as a single legal entity in many things including court/law enforcement/taxes.

A person cannot be compelled to bear witness to their partners actions in court, in the USA, that's the fifth amendment, in Canada, it's section 11(c) of the charter of rights and freedoms. The basic concept being that you have the right to remain silent (and not incriminate yourself).

While I don't plan on doing any crime or anything.... That's a nice perk.

Also, she hates doing her taxes, so when we're married, I can do taxes for both of us.

There's very few perks here and bluntly, it's not worth the cost...

We're going to elope and just throw a "reception" (party) afterwards.

Just last month, I left work early on a Thursday, met my now husband at the local courthouse, and we got married! Cost about $50 bucks. We're happy as clams about it, our families wanted us to do more but, that sounds like a them problem honestly lol

I do feel differently. Not more committed, I've long been ride or die with this human, but I get this sweet, sudden uprush of cozy emotions when I say, "my husband", or when he calls me "wife". I love him a lot and it makes me simultaneously very proud and very humble to declare that publicly.

I didn’t do the marriage thing because of love. I don’t need a piece of paper to tell me that. I did it for the logistical stuff. Buying a house. Having a kid. Combining finances. Life insurance. Health insurance. While all of this could be possible without being married, it’s much easier to have a marriage certificate than to try to prove to everyone all the time that we’re partners. If my husband were in the hospital on life support, being next of kin would simplify so many things. My culture is designed in a way that traditional marriage shapes so many processes. There may be workarounds, but they’re not always simplified and most people may not know how to use them. That can take valuable time that you don’t always have.

I am not married to my husband for legal reasons. This means when he dies, his family could take everything and leave me with nothing as I'm "just the girlfriend". Now, a will can help, but I dread what would happen because they still could fight it and it sucks. Being legally married basically shuts that down entirely.

A display of and testament to your eternal commitment, so that your loved one feels the intensity of that love, and your brother in law can get hammered and try to fuck your second cousin.

Seems pretty straightforward to me

It took me a while to fully realise the implications of marriage. At first I thought it was about commitment and love etc. but legally you are literally taking two people and turning them into one. One, glued together, single being that can own things jointly (like a house for example).

In the eyes of the law you become one being that can do things like have a joint bank account. It's both really handy, but also a massive risk if things go south. It has some huge implications that not everyone realises too. For example, here in the UK (might be the same elsewhere but I'm not sure) you can own a house jointly BUT if one of you becomes legally incapacitated (like having a serious stroke or something) and needs state care the state will drain YOUR assets to pay for your care costs until you only have about £15k left! (last I checked. It might be more now).

That includes FORCING you to sell your house to pay for care costs! To avoid that you literally have to change your ownership status to something called "Tenants in Common" because then you both own 50% of the house and the state can't sell half a house so that protects you. They're aggressive about it too so if you switch to Tenants in Common straight after the incapacitating event, they can claim "deliberate deprivation" and revert you back to joint owners.

That's just one example of the minefield you need to be aware of. The good stuff is definitely financial though. Everything is suddenly half price for example because people tend to share 50/50 in all the costs. That's really helpful! :)

A wedding can cost almost nothing. I found a very small local poor church and offered them $100 bucks to use the place on a Saturday. I baked a big cake, decorated it plain white. I overnight smoked a brisket, made a pan of Mac and cheese.

Got a friend to officiate, and told our friends and families a month in advance. We told everyone it was a potluck. We got $100 plain rings. My grandmother ended up buying some cool flowers for decorations. A friend played some music on the church speakers.

All in, it probably cost us $400 out of pocket, and we got enough cash from attendees to cover that and pay for us to take off work for the week to just hang out and move in together, staycation style. To be fair, I don't think either of us would have wanted a vacation style honeymoon, we did that kind of thing later. That first week was a lot of figuring out how to live together, so that took time.

So it's possible to have a big party with friends and family, but spend very little. Just have everyone bring some food and it'll work out.

Studies show that folks are less likely to have a happy long term marriage the more they spend on a wedding. It's a pretty clear correlation that expensive weddings typically make folks more unhappy and starts the relationship off with more financial stress. So, don't feel bad about being frugal! As long as you are both happy, it can be very inexpensive.

Some rights can be similar, but you'll always have to declare the other person as your legal whatever. Marriage says to the state that this person is my default for pretty much everything--power of attorney, medical stuff, property ownership, etc. So if I get in an accident and fall unconscious, my wife doesn't have to fight the hospital staff to see me.

Depending on your country, there are other bonds that have the same legal binding as marriage.

In addition, if we're honest, there are some "soft" benefits as well. My wife changed her name when we got married, and having the same last name (and our kids having the same last name) avoids a lot of complexity with things like traveling (especially because our daughter is a different skin color than the rest of us). Marriage didn't explicitly grant us that privilege, but there are a lot of societal norms that come with it that have proven beneficial.

I'm not trying to claim that any of this is how it should be necessarily, but if you're asking about practical reasons why, those are some of them. If you want the practical benefits without the cost, it's (relatively) cheap to go to the courthouse or Vegas. Hell, you can get a friend to perform the ceremony for free, all you pay is for the marriage license. But if you're otherwise not interested in marriage and those benefits don't appeal (or whatever other reason), just stay dating.

It greatly simplifies life from a legal standpoint. It's basically like creating a tiny corporation of two people that can act as a single legal entity. If you're married it simplifies buying a house together, inheritance, medical decisions, etc. As others have pointed out, these are important especially when your partner's family don't approve of you or the relationship especially for LGBT people.

I am going to break the mold though and say the actual ceremony is important too. Declaring your intention to stay together for life in front of your friends and family changes things. It adds a level of security and finality to the relationship- you have to put your money where your mouth is on the relationship. Although people frequently do it, I don't know how someone can go through the wedding process without reflecting on how big of a deal it is to stand up in front of so many of your friends and family and declare your intention to stay together forever, even without the religious ritual aspect of it. I wouldn't want to have kids with someone without having this commitment, for example. Ultimately even though marriage is a social construct, I think it's still a useful one even in a world where women are no longer considered property of men.

There aren't many benefits, I'm committed to my partner and we've been together for 7 years now. She's my life partner. Getting married doesn't offer much that you can't already do with other legal documents, such as getting the same rights to them in medical situations as you do with marriage. Tax benefits maybe

Neither of us want to get married because it does nothing for us, were already each others partners, even if we did, after marriage I would still refer to her as my life partner instead of wife.

Plus her very religious family desperately want us to marry and we both want to keep denying them that pleasure as early on in our relationship they were adamant we would split up if we didn't get married before living together.

I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?

This is not the case. Marriage gives you a lot of specific rights that can be covered by other legal documents but never together and marriage will override it. This is one of the main goals for giving gay marriage is all of the legal benefits of marriage which are expansive and complete. (This is of course in the USA this is not the case in other locations.)

There was a few legal pushes to separate these legal benefits from marriage into different legal rights that can be granted piecemeal. If you are intersted I would read The Other Significant Others which talks about people who prioritize friendships over marriage and how they interact with their "other significant other" which includes the legal discussions.

It doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Mine was maybe 2 thousand and actually broke even thanks to very generous cash gifts, but even without that it would have been worth it to get all our friends and family under one roof to publicly profess our love.

If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?

Yeah. In the same way that any other shared experience or token does, but this is a very public one that is built up by our cultures and we can imbue with special meaning.

It's not for everyone, and it can be problematic, but I'm happy I got married and got the magic ring and all that.

Aight, you seem to want to ignore the legal benefits, so I won't mention that beyond saying that it is a hell of a lot easier to get married than to figure out all the paperwork needed to duplicate it, and not even have the exact same outcomes, just the majority. The tax thing, for example, you can't file jointly if you aren't married, no matter what else you set up (edit: in places where things like common law marriage aren't recognized)

The biggest thing is the experience, imo. The memory.

Now, me and my wife went to the JoP, with our kid and required witnesses (my best friend and his husband).

No fancy reception, no major party, just went home and said to my dad "we're back, no problems." He said congratulations, and went back to watching TV.

Total spent was about a hundred bucks, including gas. And the memories of it are wonderful, we cherish it all, and we're happy as hell we didn't do anything else.

Wedding ceremonies, however, are expensive once you go beyond that bare minimum. That's a cultural/sociological thing where the needs of the individual and the culture mesh into not only believing it necessary, but beneficial.

And, for the people that want it, it is beneficial. Ceremonies, rites, rituals, they serve a purpose beyond the legal or official status that comes with them. Weddings are as much about community as they are the couple. It's the union being both recognized and celebrated at the same time, even when it's a secular ceremony rather than religious.

Don't get me wrong, the money spent on empty bullshit surrounding weddings is absurd. But the actual wedding, where the community stands around the couple is incredibly powerful in terms of validation, even when it's the license that really matters legally. You can have ceremonies without the license; I performed several of them back before same sex marriage became legal. Those events were important, and doubly so because they had no legal standing.

I think that's what you're missing, that there's a massive difference between two people shacking up and marriage. When the people involved swear an oath, and/or exchange symbols of union it means something, even if there's no witnesses, not even someone to perform a ceremony. But as you move into witnesses and an officiant, it feels different because it is a public commitment. You can still divorce or whatever, but it happened, and you can never deny that. That moment, the vows, they exist in a way they don't if you swear only to each other.

Yeah, two people can be just as committed, and honor their commitment perfectly without anything else. But it feels different.

Now, again, I'd argue that once you start shelling out for crazy dresses and cake and niche receptions, you hit diminishing returns very quick. That's to satisfy other things, not the union itself. It may well make people happy, but it doesn't add anything to the underlying point of there being a ceremony in the first place. That of saying to the world "where once there were two, now there are one".

Not that anyone has to share the valuation, but it's what underlies the whole thing, and it has value

Tax advantages, makes managing your estate easier if one of you dies, social status, etc.

I married my partner, after being with them for over a decade, and a few years of living together full-time. It was mostly for admin reasons (we just bought our home, and being married made things easier if one of us died). If it wasn't for that I don't think we would have bothered. We know we love each other, and had decided a few years before that if we'd get married if we ever needed to, so it wasn't like we ever 'proposed'. Just a tiny ceremony with two friends as witness, and we went out to a restaurant for lunch afterwards. I don't think it cost us anything beyond lunch? Maybe a tiny admin fee?

But... I'm so happy we did! It's weird! I never really cared, and rationally, I still think it hasn't changed anything. But somehow it feels... really nice? I still regularly think (and tell them) "I'm so glad I married you". I'm sure there are lots of other things that you can do to symbolise your relationship or commitment. If I got a tattoo inspired by my partner I'd probably have the same feeling of looking at it and thinking of them that I do when I play with my wedding ring (2€ piece of silly junk from aliexpress. And we each bought a bunch of spares so that when we inevitably lose them it's not a problem). But actually a marriage is one of the simplest and cheaper ways (if you don't choose or feel pressured into turning it into a stupid moneysink).

Tldr: didn't care about marriage, got married for tax, and weirdly found it deeply satisfying in a completely unexpected way.

The feminists don't agree but historically marriage is there to protect the woman from having to raise a child alone. It is a socially and legally binding promise from the man that he won't abandon her when she sacrifices her ability to fend for herself in order to bear children.

Two reasons: Practical considerations (shared assets, certain legal protections, I've seen people get married for an easier go re: immigration in some cases, etc. Basically check your local laws); and ritualistic.

I find people often discount the importance of certain ritual practices in Western secular society, and for a lot of people ritual in general is a whole lot of fluff and nonsense. But having a ceremony to recognize a formal joining of two people, and by extension their families (to varying degrees), with the at least ostensible intent that you will live and die in partnership with that person, is a powerful thing. It's a common ritual among multiple societies, with lots of variation and differences in exactly what it signifies, but the ubiquity speaks to that power IMO.

Don't get me wrong - I think divorce is a good thing for when the partnership truly does not and cannot work, and people can live happily in lifelong unions without marriage - but for some folks, taking that vow in the eyes of your friends and family (and whatever deity concept you may have, if that's your kink) is a very important and serious thing. Something changes, to some degree, when you take that oath.

It doesn't have to be expensive - that it often is, IMO, is a function of capitalism infecting a beautiful thing more than anything else. You can have a wedding in someone's backyard officiated by someone who paid $25 online for a certificate, with a small number of close friends and a potluck BBQ afterwards, and it would be just as valid and meaningful as a wedding that cost 100k (shit, IME the smaller one is actually more meaningful in a lot of cases). It's the intent, ritual, and meaning participating parties place on it that's important.