Well at least harming Amazon is a net good
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And this is why you rarely find decent people with good income in todays economy.
Sounds like whoever decides these things knows nothing about IT.
they don't. I mean for example Amazon puts all new hires on "on call" status for like a week every month. the LAST people I would want working On Call and waking up at 2am to try and solve something are fresh grad hires. You can actually watch videos on youtube of new grad amazon hires doing this, they actually document themselves, and the vast majority of them are "well it's 1am and I just got a call...I'm going to try and fix this ticket but really I have no idea what I'm doing" annnnnd generally nothing gets fixed or they break it worse. So they end up being sleep deprived, going into the office the next day and sleeping at whatever workstation they can find available and it leaves you wondering "what's the point?"
I personally am of the belief that being on call for stuff like this is pointless when you're world wide and could literally just transition the stuff to a different team in some other part of the world but I guess Amazon treats it as a sort of initiation process or whatever.
Its not an initiation, it's hazing
I wonder if you're actually right. I've held positions I had no business holding. Ended up having to escalate half across the world anyway. But sure got my feet wet. Don't know how much the company lost. Sorry, companies.
You write clean code and you get replaced in 2 months, because everyone can work on that code.
You write an unreadable mess that no raise will convince other employees to work on and suddenly your holiday requests don't get declined anymore.
These days it's also because you want the AI to get confused by your code too. If it's too clean you'll have a PM with cursor making PRs wondering why your salary is justified.
What's L5 and L6? What's TC?
L5 and L6 is a label for career progression, like getting promoted from staff to senior, just with different words. TC is total compensation.
Total compensation per what, year?
Yeah, typically per year. And usually it's called Total Compensation because some of it is in salary, some in stock, some in stock options, sometimes even some kinds of perks, etc.
So all of that gets balled up into Total Compensation, which is different than annual salary
$550,000 a year as a software developer. That's insane money. You could buy a luxurious house in the city CASH after saving for two years with that salary, where I live. Including other expenses. They are making 3x my salary, also as a software developer.
Amazon throws money at people with niche skill sets.
They were paying engineers with experience with SELinux and CDS developers nearly 500k the past few years.
Insanity
Tbf selinux tends to be a hell of a black box. Anytime my shit doesn't work and I can't explain why, I default to blaming selinux and hit up IT. Seems like I'm right about half the time lol
SELinux is super simple, you just gotta understand how the system works.
Once you understand the syntax and flow of SELinux policy then writing it is easy. Writing GOOD policy on the other hand …. Lmao.
Typically most IT departments “fix” it with setenforce 0 which is the equivalent of removing the seatbelt cuz you can’t figure out how to latch it.
Android has one of the most “robust” applications of it but it doesn’t serve the purpose a good policy does, it does add a substantial layer of defense. Apple contracted my company to come out and teach them how to SELinux a few years back. Ultimately they (companies that desire SELinux as an added layer of defense) tend to just pay “us” to do it instead lmao.
Career levels at Amazon (basically pay grades)
Total Compensation
At Amazon you have the following levels
L4 - Junior. A new grad. Expected to be promoted within 2 years or let go
L5 - Mid engineer. Very wide band. Encapsulates anything between a level 2 engineer and a team lead at other companies. Can be expected to lead individual teams at times. Is considered a “terminal” position (there’s no expectation of a promotion past here)
L6 - Senior. Has the scope of what a Staff engineer would at other companies where you’re not only concerned with your team but others in the department. I think like 10% of engineers ever hit L6
L7 - Principal Engineer. You have like 1-2 of these per department. These are more like architects at other companies. About 1-2% of engineers ever hit this band.
L8 and beyond are for fancy hires and shit. Very few if anyone ever works their way up to those bands.
So, where are L1-L3?
Are L3 student programmers?
L2 people who never coded anything in their life?
L1 are people who can't read? Like babies?
Not really. That's just how it works at mega tech corporations. He should try working for a startup.
Is that why they are gradually replacing the bad AWS Console UI with something 10x worse?
Apart from being slow, having discoverability issues, not being able combine filters and actions so that you frequently need to fall back to shell scripts for basic functionality, it being a complete PITA to compare things between accounts / regions, advanced functionality requiring you to directly edit JSON files, things randomly failing and the error message being carefully hidden away, the poor audit trail functionality to see who-changed-what, and the fact that putting anything complex together means spinning so many plates that Terraform'ing all your infrastructure looks like the easy way; I'll have you know there's nothing wrong with the AWS Console UI.
Yeah this was my experience when I worked there. Driving goals and doing good work isn’t enough. You need a fancy project to demonstrate “expanded scope” otherwise your promo would get rejected.
Sometimes things worked the way you wanted and people got promoted doing their normal job. A lot of times though there were a lot of fancy projects built to get people promos that suckers got stuck with the bill on.
This ain’t a case of one dude scamming the system as much as it is institutional rot from red tape.
I fought for getting a 4/5 rating at an old job and gave lots of examples. Their argument was that I didn't deserve it because those were just expected. I pointed out my work compared to others in my team and was told that it compares across the company, not the team. I kept causing a fuss about it because I was so angry about it and finally my manager said something about the bonuses has already been communicated and people would be angry to get less. I was confused because I didn't want more money, I was just offended they said I was performing on average when I was going above and beyond every day. It was also really embarrassing to me. If they'd just said the rating doesn't affect anything except your bonus I wouldn't have even cared.
The whole thing is all BS.
finally my manager said something about the bonuses has already been communicated and people would be angry to get less
That's because they have a fixed budget and the proportions are tied to evaluated performance tiers, increasing your rating would contractually require them to compensate you more from the same pool of money
Perverse incentives combined with underskilled management 😐
You get the behavior your incentives encourage, whether you realize what those behaviors are or not.
Yep, this is the culture I keep running head first into as I try to level up my career.
Same. Generally speaking our company is pretty healthy, but we're still stuck in this really stupid leveling system where advancement is tied to greenfield development and I've been doing maintenance and compliance work for the last five years.
Man, it's so frustrating. I just can't turn off my own qualms with shitty corporate culture and it means I will be less successful by the metrics we've set ourselves.
It’s ironic how so many of us find ourselves being extremely valuable for the exact reasons they can’t stand us. As IT, I’m used to being seen as nothing more than red marks on a budget to the folks making decisions. The only thing they hate more than listening to us, is when they have to.
Kinda got a chip on my shoulder today it seems.
[ In lieu of a comment, please see "Bullshit Jobs", by David Graeber, which is incorporated here by reference. ]
Something I find cool about this book is that it's so well known that people who haven't even read it will often gesture towards it to make a point. It reminds me of how "enshittification" caught on because so many people were glad to have a word for what they'd been experiencing.
It's a useful phrase to have. Recently a friend was lamenting that they'd had a string of bad jobs, and they were struggling to articulate what it was that they wanted from a job. They were at risk of blaming themselves for the fact that they'd struggled to find anything that wasn't soul sucking, because they were beginning to doubt whether finding a fulfilling job was even possible.
They were grasping at straws trying to explain what would make them feel fulfilled, and I cut in to say "all of this is basically just saying you don't care what job you have, as long as it's a non-bullshit job". They pondered it for a moment before emphatically agreeing with me. It was entertaining to see their entire demeanour change so quickly: from being demoralised and shrinking to being defiant and righteously angry at the fucked up world that turns good jobs into bullshit. Having vocabulary to describe your experiences can be pretty magical sometimes
This almost makes me appreciate my current job, where most stuff has been in place for years and any changes take forever.
It's kind of a bummer that it's going to take like six months to add a linter, and they only started using git like last year.
I worked in a heavily regulated industry. Everything required a manual test. Let's say you have an employee ID that is 10 digits long which they use to log in. You had to have some else (couldn't be the developer) to write a series of tests, get those tests approved by 5 people(with specific titles) then a third person to execute the test, then the second person had to write a report saying it all passed, then that report had to be approved by the same 5 people.
That typically wasn't the delay. The delay was to execute the tests we needed to stop production. That typically was a 6 week wait(unless urgent for "reasons") and changes like "I will drop scrap by 83%" was typically told wait till July 4th or Christmas breaks. Why? Because production would be down for 3-4 days typically. Someone had to start the system, ok no entry produces error, executor and developer have to sign a physical paper, restart the whole system, now an entry of 1 digit produces an error, sign the form, repeat for all digit quantities up to 9, repeat for all digit quantities up to the choosen value(based on severity if an issue occurred), 2 people sign for each one, system restarted between each. If you had say an enter button and a cancel button each had to be checked for each quantities of digits. Oh but wait what if someone just types there name... Now repeat everything for alphabet values... What if someone does combination, more tests, more restarts, more signing.
Reports easily surpassed 1000 pages, no one really had time to check all that so I saw so many missed signatures and missed tests. I asked the "senior validation expert" can I just automate a lot of these tests using unit tests and attach a computer generated report of all tests passing and the source code of the tests? " the response I got was" what's a unit test? "they still don't use any of them to my knowledge.
Sounds about right. There is no longer any incentive to focus on maintenance and incremental improvement (the stuff that actually keeps the lights on and the revenue flowing). It's all about the new and shiny--even when it results in regression.
The whole thing is pegging my BS meter, including letting an L5 deploy without a code and architecture review, TC, and the fact that they're posting this and claiming they're still there.
I apologize for bashing Java so hard in the past. I wish everyone wrote everything in Java these days. Digital life would be so much better.
Ok, now fire him.
The fact they had to do this to earn a promotion is an institutional problem. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
I can do both, tbh. Though I do generally hate the game more than the player.
All of you who can't understand the concept of feature complete (see syncthing drama for example) find something useful to do. I promise it's out there.
