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Here I am playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider, when it dawns on me. Lara is a sociopath. She is a killing machine who barely even speaks on it, it's nothing to her at this point. She doesn't care about her health, injury nor pain. She just wants artifacts and to uncover ancient mysteries. I like her character but damn she is actually low key the villain of the story when i think about it. Trinity are bad guys but Lara is the boss villain slaughtering all in her way to get to her goals. Lol anyone else notice that?

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[–] Burninator05@lemmy.world 159 points 2 days ago (5 children)

You've just described the protagonists in most games.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 80 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Check the manual for Super Mario Bros. The original on NES.

Mario is described as "The hero of our story (maybe)"

Which is kind of a weird way to describe the main character.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 59 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The synopsis in the manual also states that Bowser turned the residents of the Mushroom Kingdom into "stones, bricks, and field horse-hair plants." In a given playthrough, most players probably smash a lot of bricks. Bricks which used to be Mushroom Kingdom people, who are now dead. Because Mario killed them.

It's a big maybe on Mario being the hero because he may or may not actually succeed in reaching Bowser and rescuing the princess depending on how much the player happens to suck, and/or of Luigi winds up being the victor instead.

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean, pretty sure getting turned into a brick killed them first

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think the implication is supposed to be that when you beat Bowser they'll be turned back.

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

Did anything actually imply it or just wishful thinking?

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Actually, if Luigi wins, Mario still wins. There's 3 Marios. Mario Mario, and Luigi Mario.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In a time when a lot of children's media was focused on "eco warriors" and fighting against pollution and stuff, you had a game with an Italian plumber stomping on turtles.

[–] Aielman15@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

a game with an Italian plumber stomping on turtles.

Perchance.

[–] mycodesucks@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

Keep it up, baby

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[–] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago

I remember a comic where one character says "Why are there so many monsters in this dungeon?!"

The other says "because they live here."

And the first character says "oh. ...ooooooohhhh...."

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 16 points 1 day ago

One example: the early-80s arcade game Elevator Action, in which you play a secret agent who abseils to the top floor of an enemy building and has to grab secret files and make his way down to a getaway car on the ground floor. Well, that’s how it’s described. In reality, you’re a spree shooter rampaging through an office.

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.

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[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 126 points 1 day ago
[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 65 points 1 day ago (5 children)

The unfortunate fact is, the conceit of most action games relies on some pretty dumb ideas.

  1. Every opponent is committed to ending your life, even to the point of fighting on when 80% of their unit is dead.
  2. Your hero is skilled enough at combat to win hundreds of fights without any permanent injuries
  3. The "light, casual" quests you're put on like retrieving a child's missing doll are important enough to for enemies to relentlessly guard with their life.

People have pointed this out for everyone from Mario to Nathan Drake, etc. Some games even try to base a "moment of introspection" around it, and it sort of falls flat.

[–] JesusChristLover420@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In Halo, you can kill an elite squad commander and the grunts will run and cower. Halo wins once again.

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[–] lime@feddit.nu 9 points 1 day ago (7 children)

uncharted is the worst for this because the fights add basically nothing. the games are great humourous adventure serials occasionally broken up by obligatory murderous rampages. after my first playthrough of uncharted 2 it showed that i had done over 200 headshots alone. friend of mine had something like 1500.

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[–] SolSerkonos@piefed.social 63 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You've discovered ludonarrative dissonance!

I've always thought it was funny how fast she goes from crying over a deer she had to kill to remorseless murdering machine.

[–] Jrockwar@feddit.uk 12 points 1 day ago

My flatmate used to call that Tomb Raider (the first of the new trilogy) "PTSD Simulator". It's as you say, the first few deaths are entirely survival-driven, with her constantly crying and then she becomes an emotionless one-woman army.

[–] meejle@lemmy.world 58 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Yeah. In Tomb Raider 2013 she goes from crying about killing a deer, to wiping out hundreds of people with families, in the space of about an hour. 😬

[–] merdaverse@lemmy.zip 28 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, it was funny how they tried to create some narrative arc about how she reacts to killing, and it just made the whole thing even weirder

[–] Uruanna@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That was very clearly on purpose, she starts panicking about the first guys she kills to survive (and there's a very obvious rape vibe when she gets ganged up on), and near the end she's screaming I'm gonna kill you all. That is the narrative arc. Welcome to trauma stories?

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[–] cybervseas@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago

I couldn’t keep playing that game after the first few hours. It felt like some kind of Lara Croft torture simulator fetish thing and made me feel icky.

[–] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

It bothers me because TR2013 didn't have to be like that. The dogs were challenging and scary. The puzzles were good. The bow and melee combat was tense. Hunting and exploration could've played a bigger part, the game so rarely took you off the rails and it was good when it did.

The game could've been made with killing humans being rare dramatic moments, with the guns being tools of last resort.

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 51 points 1 day ago (1 children)

She's a wealthy British lady ...so yes, a sociopath.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Also, you don’t want to know what she thinks of trans people

[–] Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Don't worry. She'll make sure you know.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 40 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Did you play the first one in the reboot trilogy?

There's a bit where she has to kill somebody in self defence and then breaks down over it, before spending the entire rest of the game plonking arrows through people's skulls.

[–] IndigoMoontrue@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

Yes, I played the first video game. She was slowly becoming a sociopath in that one. By the third one, she is a sociopath.

[–] cobysev@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago (3 children)

But she's the Hero™ fighting against the Bad Guys™. Branding is everything.

But yeah, viewed objectively from a third party perspective, a lot of heroes in games and movies are actually borderline villains. Inserting themselves into a situation they don't need to be involved in, and then the end justify the means. They may murder tons of no-name henchmen, but a greater threat to society has been eliminated!

I actually find it interesting that a lot of superhero characters came from healthy, sane family environments and fight to protect the Status Quo™, while most villains come from hardship and trauma and attempt to change the Status Quo™ that allowed their injustice of a life to exist, so others don't suffer the same fate.

But some happy-go-lucky hero always comes by and stops them because their plan changes the Status Quo™. And we can't accept changes to our structured social environment!

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 25 points 2 days ago

DC's Poison Ivy is always one of the best examples of this.

I want to say she is from the 70s? And "evil lady eco terrorist" is both sexy and evil. Except, as time went on, more and more of the readers/viewers started to REALLY like the lady who murders the patriarchy while destroying chemical factories and oil refineries to protect the planet. So she became more of a plant monster and DC Editorial learned how many of us are into bondage and so forth. Which has led to the modern day where she is basically an anti-villain, at best, alongside her lesbian lover Harley. Although the Harley Quinn show did a great job of playing with that with everyone more or less thinking her an annoying goodie two shoes even though she is torturing and murdering children and whatever else her background atrocity of the week is.

But a lesser known example that might actually be one of my favorite movies at this point is Donnie Yen's Raging Fire. Yen plays the hero cop, as he always does, who is older but has morals and butts heads with his bosses who are too political. Except that, years prior to the movie, he was on a case with his protege and partner and they were told to do whatever it took to find a rich business man. Oh noes! His entire unit accidentally kills a suspect and now then Oh Noes, Donnie narced on them because of his morals so they went to prison and had a REAL bad time.

And now they are out and killing the corrupt cops and business people who betrayed them. Also it is basically Heat (right down to getting caught because the psycho killed a hooker) and the movie does a REAL good job of showing why Tse's criminal is the way he is and why Yen's cop is pushed to his breaking point and outright fighting the system he is supposed to uphold when his loved ones are in danger.

Until the final sequence which is the bank robbery from Heat. Except the writers realized the CCP is REALLY not going to like a movie that is this anti-cop so suddenly they are mowing down civilians left and right and lobbing grenades everywhere just to make sure you understand these ex-cops are actually the bad guys. And Donnie Yen and his CCP mouthpiece ass still has it.

Its a deeply problematic movie, like most of Donnie Yen's post 2010s work, but it is also incredibly fascinating when you think of it from the perspective of sympathetic villains and state mandated "tone". Also, like ALL of Donnie Yen's work, it is a beautiful spectacle of martial arts coming from a guy who is even more frustratingly charming than Tom Cruise.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don't read many comics, but there was a Wonder Twins run by Mark Russell that was amazing.

The villain had a plan to scramble everyone's identity on Earth, so one day you could wake up and be in a horrible economic situation. His thinking was that with the deadline approaching, people would have to work to make the world more fair for everyone.

SpoilerThe world leaders are so relieved when he's finally caught, because they can stop wasting money on improving the lives of poor people.

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[–] asmoranomar@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago

If you think you have it bad, just remember - Laura Croft's entire life has been in ruins.

[–] justsomeguy@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Lara sneaking around a camp. Finds a letter one of the mercs wrote to his little daughter. He just wants to come home to her and only took the job to pay for her expensive private school.

She slams her climbing pick into his eye socket.

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's (from the era of) Quake with extra Earth lore & special triangles.

It's like in the movies where the main hero chooses to not kill the bad guy at the end "because that would make him as bad as them" ... yet he killed 1000 poor henchmen throughout the movie with no issues.

[–] the_q@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 days ago (5 children)

The real sociopath was us all along.

[–] JackLSauce@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago

The real treasure was the personality disorder we developed along the way

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[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

One of the most unhinged archeologists ever

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

"We named the dog Indiana"

[–] nogooduser@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Along with Nathan Drake for exactly the same reason.

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

Nathan Drake is a treasure Hunter not an archeologist. He KNOWS he’s not the good guy

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

There is a shitty 2007 TV movie by ČT Studio Brno (at this point, "shitty" is redundant) Kája a Zabi, where the protagonist, little boy Kája, mashes his keyboard in frustration, causing an off-brand Lara Croft to appear IRL. I haven't seen the movie but she allegedly speaks broken Czech in a weirdly modulated voice, and keeps asking who Kája wants her to kill ("zabít", hence the nickname she gets). I assume she is just about as psychopathic as Lara.

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[–] JandroDelSol@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

yeah but she has triangle tiddies

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Shadow definitely went off the deep end as it tried to up the stakes. Most of her personal motivation (frantic survival and then the mystery of her father's death) were out the window and it was just a nebulous "I want to stop the bad guys". And... it plays with it but it is very clear the intent is that she is unleashing the apocalypse as she steals these artifacts before the Bad Guys can. Whether the Bad Guys would have still done it without her is, of course, up to the viewer. It's Indy and the Ark/Grail.

But I think the game overall does a good job of getting to the status quo and establishing Lara as having a Very British reason for looting everything and shooting every dinosaur she ever sees. If she doesn't steal it, err, have it gifted to her, then somebody much worse will and they'll be a lot meaner about it.

On the scale of "it belongs in a museum": She is definitely much more psychotic than Indiana Jones. But she ain't got nothing on Nathan Drake.


Personally? I loved the first of the reboot trilogy (actually strongly disliked every Tomb Raider up to that). I felt the second wore out its welcome by the end. And I actively disliked the third but it was short enough I finished it. But I think that is also why I will probably never bother to play Uncharted 4. I am just done with humping walls looking for yellow paint and waiting to see when my character reaches for something so I know to hit the jump button.

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[–] gedhrel@lemmy.world 10 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The originals were much better. Lara Croft was a jet-setting dilettante with Girl Power from the era of "Cool Britannia" and the Spice Girls.

Comparatively, the reboots are utterly po-faced.

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[–] sundray@lemmus.org 10 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Well, you don't get many kind and gentle shooter protagonists just dripping with empathy.

[–] Uruanna@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Have you not seen those movies that end up saying "if we kill the big bad, we're no better than them" after mowing down countless faceless mobs

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