Ask Lemmy

"I don't understand what those words mean and I'm taking the coward's way out of this conversation."

Every discussion I've had with someone who said this has led me to expect ignorance. I think its something people who don't know much like to say because they think it sounds good.

That they're a Democrat

Well this is what I think since I often fall into that kind of thinking and kind of reflected on how I recently voted on a proposition.

It was increase to the sales tax to make the area "safer and vibrant" and touted as a major way in this prop was providing help for affordable housing. My brain went immediately jumped to the more progressive leaning side and went, I'd love to help those who can't afford housing and yeah, I don't mind paying a bit more tax even though I don't particularly like the whole more regressive taxation kind of thing but overall it would be a great thing. Then I looked at the break down and saw that only 17 percent of the funding would actually go toward affordable housing.

That's where the more fiscally conservative part went, huh, well that doesn't pass the sniff test if you're making this about affordable housing and making things "safer" for them and the community dafuq is it only 17 percent of the budget there? Well digging in, 45 percent of this would have gone to cops and first responders, heavy emphasis on cops with articles going on about how the cops were looking forward to buying a helicopter. That fiscally conservative part of me went, yeah, that's wasting my god damn tax money then.

At that point my NWA part of the brain went, you assholes want to hire more cops with no change in hiring standards where we already have a problem with way too many racists ass police, give them cars, helicopters, more tasers and guns, and body cameras that we don't have access to the footage and no consequences if these assholes turn them off during an their encounters with the public? ACAB you bunch of tone deaf jackasses and Fuck the Police.

Needless to say, I did not vote for that increase in taxes.

"I'm discriminating towards poor people".

This is my father. Like, I'm happy that he doesn't hate me because I'm bi and poly. He's pretty open about how he thinks the Republican party is cruel and shitty.

His problem is that he associates fiscally progressive policies with California's creaking and inefficient bureaucracy. In his career, he spent a lot of time interacting with various CA governmental departments and he grew to loathe them intensely. Whenever I discuss progressive policies with him, he always relates it back to his experiences living and working in California and then just shrugs and says "I hate both parties for different reasons."

It's funny, because like, shit man, I kinda agree with him on a superficial level. California's state and local governments sucks at their jobs in a lot of ways (see the notorious San Francisco public bathroom). I agree that unions (of which there are many in California) can sometimes impede quick and efficient work (although I don't fucking care, I just chill out and am patient with folks and the shit gets done eventually. The process would be more efficient if the company tried to have a more harmonious relationship with the union).

He just doesn't seem to understand that as far as progressive polities go, California is a terrible example. There are plenty of places around the world that that have implemented progressive and socialist policies while still preserving the things he cares about (efficiency and relative frugality), but he's never been to those places. He hasn't engaged with those governments. All he can think of is the "progressive" state that caused him so much anger.

So basically, I think most people like this are fundamentally nice and decent, but they're ignorant and are blind to the underlying dissonance between their social and fiscal philosophies. My dad has never voted for Trump (he wrote in a friend's name which was basically a vote for Trump, but fuck man, it's at least a little better), but I don't believe he'll ever accept that voting according to his fiscal philosophy directly contradicts his social philosophy.

EDIT: apologies if this is rambling or poorly written. I'm sleep deprived and distracted and very stressed, and I probably shouldn't have commented at all.

“I like to have my cake and eat it too”.

"You've been duped". Because people like this never acknowledge the amount of corporate welfare going on in America, if you want to be fiscally conservative, stop paying for profit companies from government coffers. Don't go after food stamps, that is just veiled prejudice

I used to think this, because I was against government waste. But I also supported welfare programs, so I was just using the wrong terms for my ideas.

"I smoke weed but think you're lazy if you make less money than me"

Probably racist but hides it

"Socially liberal" right up until the point that we start talking about worker's rights, the dignity of poor people, and the exploitation of cheap slave labor on the other side of the world

"I'm not a fan of murdering women, people of color, and LGBT people, but I still believe that Trickle Down Economics work! Long Live Capitalism!"

Or maybe it's Arnold Schwarzenegger who still want to pretend the repepublican party still exists and play RINO. Like... Dude just leave already, its a nazi party. 🤦‍♂️ (Maybe he's doing a deep-cover Terminator Infiltration? 🤔)

They voted for trump and agree with everything he says but don't want to own up to it

Assuming they're American: they're an idiot. Sorry. They don't understand how things are intertwined, and you can't have social justice for free. If you let laissez-faire policies be, you don't get socially liberal outcomes. You get capitalist dystopia.

Greedy cunt

I would think, "the accuracy of that statement depends on your voting record".

I assume they vote liberal or are uncomfortable being seen as the hateful sack of shit they are.

If we're talking America the parties align like this:

• Democrat: Socially moderate, fiscally conservative
• Republican: Socially regressive, fiscally liberal

They don't pay attention to the world around them.

Raging asshole.

"Liar."

Libertarians don't actually care about social progress if it affects a business's bottom line negatively.

Usually they are lying. It means they hate poor people.

Screaming from the far left, there are a lot of people in scarcity or precairity in our society, a society that would collapse if they all suddenly fell incapacitated from their want.

It is our fucking duty as fellow citizens to stabilize them.

Conservatism at its core is ignoring their need in the name of tradition. To the ninth charnel circle of Hell with that.

I would think they want to not get caught up in a culture war, but also don't want a ton of government programs and costs and don't want to incur debt.

But people have no idea what anything means anymore and they just use words, like woke, and they use them wrong. So who even knows if people are talking about the same thing.

"I don't like being held responsible for the outcomes of the fiscal policies I fully support"

I think we have countless words. We should use our words.

We all have a spectrum of social and economic and other ideals.

Those who want to lead us have theirs too, and they’re the ones who need us to commit and compartmentalize into ideologies and macro definitions that get twisted.

Housing and human rights matter and we should stop spending so much money on bombing houses and killing people.

🤔

My first thought is to wonder what they mean, as opposed to deciding it must be the worst thing I can think of.

My friend who managed to be as right as it could even be in a political compass test which I thought was impossible, the man was a hyper capitalist

They pine for the Blue Dogs and haven't updated their policy preferences since the early 90's.