Ask Lemmy

We have a very materialistic and consumeristic culture and we shame the poor.

How else are we supposed to know who's better than who?

Being in debt isn't synonymous with being broke.

I could pay off my house tomorrow if I wanted, but financially it doesn’t make sense - so I keep the debt. That doesn’t mean my net worth is negative or that I don’t have disposable income.

I mean, it depends on what you mean by that. Anyone who has a credit card is going to have debt, just by virtue of needing to pay the bill.

But if you mean "most Americans have a negative net worth"

taking into account assets and debts

most Americans have a positive net worth.

https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/average-net-worth-by-age-how-do-you-measure-up

The median net worth of all Americans in 2022 was $192,900.

Americans are big on appearances. Gotta seem religious. Gotta seem rich. Gotta seem happy. Gotta seem free.

Seem

I blame that predestination bullshit that's in the country's DNA. If you're rich it must mean God loves you and if you're poor that's due to your sins.

I am absolutely beyond broke on paper. My debts are well into the six figures and my bank account is in the low five figures.

I'm in my 40s and have a whopping $15k for retirement and no assets.

It's pretty awesome.

Broke, poor, and in debt are three different things.

Broke just means no cash on hand. You can have tons of cash flow and assets but at the moment you are lacking liquidity to pay cash for things. You may or may not have debt. You might have just blown all your cash on a big purchase.

Poor means you have little and earn little and can do little. Debt is often a factor here but you can be poor and not in debt.

People in debt owe money. They might not be struggling at all. Sometimes rich people borrow money because it costs them less than the interest they receive on the cash they have. Or it could be the opposite, it could be crippling every aspect of their lives.

Americans carry a lot of debt on average. My only debit is my mortgage plus the last two weeks of credit card spending. I pay off my card in full every month. I only use the credit card because it offers purchase protection and I get rewards. Not all debt is bad debt, but a lot of it is.

Honestly, not being a dick and caveat for me not knowing shit about you, but if you are curious enough about the topic to ask, you should take a quick finance course. Not like enroll in college or anything. I wanna say there are tons and tons of free to access resources for learning how debt and assets work that will undoubtedly improve how you manage your own money.

Just to save the search (I use Udemy the most but definitely have not checked out all of these platforms personally, so do yo own due diligence lol)

BYU personal finance courses

• PERSONAL FINANCE FOR SELF-RELIANCE COURSE - In our course of working with and developing courses in personal finance, we found that the best beginning program had already been developed. As such, we have received permission from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to use their Personal Finances for Self-Reliance program materials on this website.

• MONEY WISE FINANCIAL COURSE - This beginning course gives you a broad introduction to the many different areas of personal finance, with the hope that you will continue your study to understand better the topics covered in this website.

Personal Finance 101: Everything You Need to Know

• At the end of this course, students will be able to...
• Build excellent credit
• Manage debt, including student loans
• Invest wisely and effortlessly
• File a tax return
• Get a great bank account
• Understand credit cards
• Understand and get six types of insurance
• Make a spending plan
• Buy a car
• Find a great apartment
• Buy a house
• Get a jump start on retirement
• Save for college
• Get out of credit card debt
• Avoid identity theft and fraud
• Understand an estate plan
• Navigate dating and finances
• Navigate marriage and finances
• Navigate children and finances
• Navigate divorce and finance

Become financially savvy with free online courses from MIT

• August 21, 2024 - MIT Open Learning
• Explore the foundations and practical applications of finance for your personal and professional development.

Fuck it, lol, here is a link to a list of 30 free financial courses for all types of financing.

If a person has a house they are paying a monthly mortgage payment towards, no one in America would consider them "broke".

I was in debt for several years from college tuition, but would not have been considered "broke" because I managed a job that met my essentials plus enough to pay down my tuition loans.

Debt isn't seen as bad so long as it's being managed. Exceptions for Dave Ramsey fan types.

You could say college and housing and medical stuff should never out a person into debt and I would agree. But that wasn't the question, it was about general perspective in the US.

crazy how people in brazil used to look up to American living standards, but it turns out americans have more inequality, violence, worse education, health system, worse food, and the list goes on

who's pretending they aren't broke?

I don't know anyone pretending they aren't broke in America...I know a lot of good people struggling paycheck to paycheck and that's it. I love how Lemmy has become this echo chamber of hate for Americans when y'all are just as fucked in Europe and other countries too with so many similar or different issues. Imagine a little compassion for all people rather than assuming "America bad because America". Just so incredibly sad and stupid to see how dumb so many people are.. that kind of thought process is exactly the same type of people that vote for trump that have this same attitude about "insert race or country here". Y'all need a reality check, yesterday...

Debt is not a broke person thing. Most people you'd consider to be well off have debt.

Americans dont feel broke because they have extremely strong purchasing power.

Propaganda of American exceptionalism.

Cash liquidity =/= standard of living

A lot of people are in debt on things like cars and homes, that’s where a lot of the debt is. There is also credit card debt, but that’s a whole other thing. So long as people can make the payments on the loans, and those payments grow slower than their income, they can maintain a given standard of living.

Also a lot of the super rich make most of their money off of collateralized assets as a sort of tax dodge. Them being largely payed in assets that appreciate in value, they then take loans out against the value of the asset, and so long as the asset appreciates in value faster than the interest rate, they’re fine. Since the assets aren’t taxed until they are sold (unrealized gains) and they’re technically not selling the assets by using them as collateral against a loan, so they’re not taxed on that income. This situation also skews the numbers on “the average debt of Americans”.

Ultimately though, this is all a super fragile situation, and all it takes is for assets (like say a house or stock in a big tech company) to decrease in value for everything to explode.

There are also a lot of Americans who are not in such a situation and are limping along financially, trading debt for time, and live at a much lower standard of living.

The US is big on wealth inequality, like most third-world countries. Yeah, lots of people are broke, but lots of people are also making 200k/year. Overall we're definitely struggling, but that doesn't mean everyone is struggling.

Lemmy also leans both older and into the tech demographic, which tend to be higher paid.

I'm guessing not admitting your finances are shit is pretty universal, no need to pick on 'Murica.

Maybe the real curency was the debt we found along the way?

What's important is how much you can buy, not how much money you have.

It’s part of our culture. It dates back to when America was new. Plantation owners wanted to pretend we had a rich and powerful economy and history and culture. They made everything pristine and gaudy and exp wove looking but there was no substance. Look at the architectural decisions made in plantation houses and how the elements are still used in homes today.

We pretend we are better than we really are.

Because we want to spend our end of days in comfort

Who's pretending?

We're all broke. Unless you're a boomer trying to sell a $0.50 house you bought in the 50s you paid for on a gas station cashier salary. They're ok for the moment. But even a lot of them are going broke now too. Highest demographic of newly homeless last I heard.

Because being poor means you're weak, and weakness makes you're a piability to your friends, useless, and prey.

In debt doesn’t mean you’re broke. Not having money to spend is being broke. I’m pretty sure most Americans will admit they’re in debt.