Actually! Wheel11 is really outdated, which is why im building wheeland, which is more secure and <...>
this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2025
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Not sure how this applies when:
- X11 was the only standard prior to Wayland.
- GNOME is dropping X11 in a short time.
- KDE's telemetry even five months ago showed 80+% of (that portion of) their userbase uses Wayland, and they plan to drop X11 once they have a concrete set of problems worked out.
- Hyprland and Sway run Wayland exclusively.
- Cinnamon, MATE, and Xfce are working on Wayland sessions. Cinnamon's is there but, I think, still experimental.
- Budgie is working to go Wayland-only.
- There's no sign that Wayland will stop improving from a state that's arguably already much better than X11.
- X11's actual maintainers barely want anything to do with it beyond bug fixes, and the only person who wants to "innovate" it via a fork is a bigot and a fucking moron who doesn't know things you learn in CS 101.
- X11's maintainers are majorly involved in developing Wayland and have been since the start. This is their idea.
It seems like it went from "Situation: there is one standard" to "Situation: there are two standards developed by largely the same people with one set to replace the other", and then soon: "Situation: there is one standard and one translation layer kept around for a decade or so for compatibility."
Not every single time someone tries to make things better is this xkcd relevant; this had nothing to do with unifying standards and everything to do with superseding one.
Huh neat. I kinda just assumed "wheel11" had 10 other versions and didnt realize it was an analogy for something irl
You are actually correct that Wheel11 had 10 other versions. It just happens that those 10 other versions were released before September 1987.
> Pretty much everything uses wayland now
> nVidia drivers don't work on Wayland
> ANGER
And that's why I'm getting AMD when I'll be ~~modernizing~~ replacing my setup
> nVidia drivers don’t work on Wayland
What?
I'm using Wayland with nvidia-open drivers and I don't have a problem even using proton via Wayland for HDR.
I'm using the proprietary ones on Bazzite and they don't let me change my refresh rate - fortunately it only went from 75Hz to 60.
When I looked up the issue, the only reason I could find is that the drivers have issues with Wayland.
Ah.
I've used a few distros that locked specific patch levels and that's just one of the kinds of issues you deal with. Sometimes that version has a bug and you have to wait for the next major release to get the update.
I'm using a rolling release distro, which comes with a different set of problems. But, I have the latest drivers and Wayland updates and have not encountered any significant issues using high refresh rate, VRR, HDR even while gaming.
It's also possible that Bazzite is using gamescope which does have significant issues with NVIDIA, even still. But the newest versions of Proton support using Wayland directly (instead of XWayland), so it's possible to avoid using gamescope entirely without losing access to display features.
Obligatory "it works for me". I only had one issue with one game on Wayland. Some nvidia driver update fixed that a few months ago.
"And duck the users for wanting to know in their own Linux systems which windows are opened, whether the mouse is there, send input signals to them, etc. No, Wheeland is not going to have any of those, we'll force the gazillion DEs to recreate that part of the wheel."
If "the wheel" is achieved by making literally every application you run a keylogger, I'm very cool with Wayland "reinventing the wheel". X11's handling of user input is a fucking embarrassment.
Besides just the Steam Deck and Proton, a big reason people are finally sticking around on Linux is because using X11 feels exactly like what it is: a cobbled-together piece of archaic shit that needs to be left behind.
Wayland by contrast feels fantastic to run, and on my GTX 1070 with proprietary drivers, the only current issue I have with it is how Firefox picture-in-picture popouts don't stay on top by default.
Hey we are penguins not ducks
'tis the wheeland experience :3. At least we can have monitors with different refresh rates tho
As is we do kinda have 2 standards, both equally bad, and you just have to pick your poison
You should get 20 Linux devs in there, then we can have 20 forks of wheel…
i don't think a wheel with 20 forks in it would work very well
I mean, it would, so long as the forks are the spokes of the wheel.
I've seen this so many more times from Microsoft than anywhere else. They even tried reinventing a regex syntax just for their IDE!
pff you call that working fine?
I'm betting a certain highschool vibecoder will generate a million LOC before even trying the door.
Sir, this is PROGRAMMER humor
This again? Insert "wheel was reinvented plenty of times" comment here.
lemme yt-dlp this message so I can listen to it in the terminal for less distraction
It's a proprietary wheel, we need to create a Flat Circle for Spinning (libFCS).
I am fan of reinventing stuff that was frankensteined to kinda work in a modern world..
I don’t like hacky solutions.
Hope systemd is next.
*frankensteind
Hope systemd is next.
OpenRC, Runit, dinit, s6, ...
The init wars!
(There is a comic somewhere here)
the wheel doesnt need to be reinvented, but it does need to be broken down into its components so they can be used with other things that may need them.
the spoke, the circle, the tread, and the spoke hub should be broken up before accepting the PR.
Plot twist: once you accept the wheel without reinventing it, you have to pay a monthly wheel subscription.
Linux dev: no, no! I gotta reinvent the wheel, but also I'm going remove 80% of the original wheel's features and then force everyone to use my wheel before it's even functional.
A spinning wheel? That just screams inefficiency to me... Make it solid state.
lol
No, the wheel needs to compile with this standard set of libraries and compilers, not that set of standard libraries and compilers. Duh!