“What do you mean you work more hours than us for less in return? Doesn’t your king fear a revolt?”
this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2025
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We get less of a percentage of our work, but certainly get more absolute value.
The gains in efficiency over the last hundred years have been insane. Today's crumbs are better than the whole cookie back then.
No more dirt floors, indoor plumbing, electricity, books, etc.
100 years ago, great grandpa was teaching little Appalachian boys who didn't wear shoes except in the winter.
82 years ago, grandad was a Torpedo Man 3rd class getting asbestos rained on his head every time my wife's ancestors scored a close hit.
45 years ago, at my other great grandpa's place in Louisiana, there were black families down the road living in shacks. However you're picturing a shack, it was worse.
38 years ago, there was a sport called "f** bashing". Hicks or punkers would wait for gays to come out the bar and beat the shit out of 'em.
38 years ago, we Gen X kids casually lived under threat of global thermonuclear war. Meh. No biggie.
Yeah, not only did efficiency go through the roof, everything got better.
I think the big thing is that they can and should be better than this, too. We shouldn't have to settle when we've made enough abundance for everyone.
Personally, I still want people desperate enough to do shitty jobs like dealing with trash and sewage and people. But I think we have enough to pay those people good money, give them good healthcare, an otherwise comfortable financial life, let them work 32 hours a week, and let them retire at 65.
Basically what unions would have given is if they hadn't been gutted.
You're right, it's the should be better that's important. But I think we can say that about nearly every human culture in history. It's just that now we can see how fucked up inequality is.
And the study that the claim is made from is fairly dubious. It really only applies to specific types of peasants, during a specific period of time, in specific locations, and counts certain types of infrequent religious breaks from work as a common place given.
No, we get more convenience
In exchange for indoor plumbing, we don't have the time to do our chores. In exchange for concrete foundations and plastic floors, the entire world is poisoned and we no longer have community bonds. In exchange for electricity, we lost nature
We work far more than we ever have, and for what? To destroy our bodies and live in anxiety of losing what we have?
What truly matters in life?
I'm not saying it's all bad, but there's a balance. We live in the most exciting times in history - it's so absurdly convenient, but it's also deeply horrible
we don’t have the time to do our chores
You also don't have to cobble your own shoes or darn your only pair of socks.
It isn't a serious perspective to say that medieval peasants had it better than anyone in a first world country today.
Genuinely, I think your examples are negatives
I love the act of creation. I love molding the world around me. I would rather fix my shoes and repair my shirts than have shitty, unrepairable clothes made from plastic that just dissolve after a couple years
I think the connection between you and your personal things is good when it's a long relationship of maintenance and restoration. I think it's horrible when it's short and replaceable
Then you can get that with technology. Because where computer stuff is concerned, we're still cobbling our own pi-holes and smart home setups.
I agree. I think personal mastery over your devices is a wonderful thing. Even when ephemeral - if you transfer a concept from device to device, I think that's beautiful
Then why don't you? There is literally nothing stopping you from doing that.
Your clothing probably isn't made of plastic. It's probably made of cotton. If you're buying unrepairable clothing that's a choice you made, since I think all of my clothing is repairable and it wasn't purchased with that intention.
I know why I don't spend my time patching holes in my hand made underwear: it would be uncomfortable, and it would take more of my time than a 5 pack of underwear costs.
We didn't invent all this stuff because we're stupid. We invented it because owning one pair of pants for your adult life is just absolutely miserable.
I'm literally wearing a shirt from a decade ago right now. It is made of 100% cotton, and the underarms have ripped recently
Why? Because my more recent clothing dissolved we when I tugged at them gently. Just fucking fell apart, not even at the seams, just tore like paper
So I practice on the plastic bullshit so I can sew up the cotton when I need to
again, that’s a choice you made… you can make your own clothes out of linen and the tools to do it are more available to you because they’re not hand crafted, but you choose not to because you want to save time
heck, you can buy a shirt that’s 5x the price that will last but you choose the cheap shirt so you can have 5 of them
this is the same argument that we don’t build the coliseum any more and therefor we’re not as good at making concrete as ancient romans… modern society is built on engineering, and engineering doesn’t build things that lasts 2000 years that’s true, but that’s not what engineering is for
engineering isn’t about building bridges that don’t fall down: engineering is about building bridges that barely stand up so you can have more of them
the same goes with clothes… modern clothes aren’t made to last your entire life because they’d cost 5x more… people don’t actually want a shirt from their 20s when they’re 70 - people don’t even really want a shirt from their 20s when they’re 30! they want 5 shirts in their 20s and 5 more in their 30s, and they want to be unique and personal and they want to spend no time to acquire them
I actually don't believe you. Like I don't think your shirt fell apart like that, and I don't think you bought a plastic shirt.
Fabric lasting a long time isn't odd. I've got a synthetic fabric gym bag from 20 years ago that's fine. I've got a 10 year old synthetic blend shirt that's never had an issue. I've got cotton shirts in the same range.
Synthetic fibers tend to be more expensive, and are more durable for the fabric weight. It's why they use them for safety equipment.
You're acting like none of us are familiar with clothes. Where are you buying disintegrating shirts, and why ? I've never encountered that and I've been wearing clothing for quite a while. I've only had any type of clothing tear like that if it snags on something like a nail.
The romans figured that shit out a while ago already: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction, or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace [...]
Honestly that's a thing today as well. Though funny enough the current US admin is trying it's best to remove the bread part of that and only keep the circus. Hopefully they find out the hard way why both are needed.
I mean, they're definitely not providing the circus.
The phrase literally refers to giving people loaves of bread and a more frequent holding of games and public entertainment to keep people happy, not the notion of just distracted.
The current admin is making it harder for people to meet basic needs, and not doing anything to pump approval ratings.
A more modern sense would be to look for ways to make life easier that doesn't fix anything, and to make life better that doesn't improve anything, but has the perk of being explicitly because of the admin. A check for $500 and a set of movie tickets.
Psh. It’s not like they could fund a bunch of television and radio stations that can broadcast things going on in a government owned center for arts and entertainment. That would never work right?!?
that’s a thing today as well
Yeah thats what i was insinuating. We just forgot how to collectively give a fuck, which is crazy considering how much more connected we are with live information about all the horrendous shit that the rich and powerful are doing.
The amount of stuff even a relatively poor person has in a developed country would be mind blowing for a medieval peasant.
"You have running water, hot water on demand, and pipes to carry your shit away to a far away land??? You must be the king of kings!"
A medieval peasant would lose their mind eating a Dorito. Snacks nowadays are literally engineered to hijack our brains.
They're also incredibly bad for you. They're like drinking oil with a little bit of crushed flour and salt mixed in.
Which is also what makes them super delicious. Fat, crunch, Umami, salt. Most snacks also have sugar added even if they're not "sweet".
They'd honestly probably hate it. Ultra processed foods are disgusting if you're not used to them, there's a gross kinda chemically undertone to the flavor that sticks to your tongue. Normally it's covered up by making your taste buds overload, but new tastes stand out. It helps develop aversions if we get food poisoning from trying new foods
They'd also be going from never tasting spices before to total overload. A lot of them would react like people do to tear gas
Now, if they powered through and kept eating they'd probably get addicted, but it would be an acquired taste
Ultra processed foods are disgusting if you're not used to them
This is why so many kids never even get started eating junk food.
It’s called Bliss Point! I just listened to a Stuff You Should Know podcast episode about it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bliss_point_(food)
If the peasant is from medieval Japan, they may at least understand the umami component
giving a modern microwaved shrimp fried rice bowl to a Japanese medieval peasant
"Yeah, I could believe a shrimp fried this rice."
A while back I saw a response to that tweet, it went something like
How many of us would throw up if we had to pluck and gut a chicken? The dorito isn't that impressive.
I wouldn't throw up, I just wouldn't do it.
You wouldn't do it.. at first.
Hunger has a way of motivating people.
But if you gave them Takis...
Hot Cheetos and Takis AND the accompanying music video… that’s how you blow some minds