this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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[–] fieryhamster@lemmy.world 127 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Countdown until Trump stupidly bans it as it "harms" President Musk.

[–] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 76 points 1 week ago (2 children)

...

biden basically did that already. ever noticed there are no byds on the road in the us?

i seem to recall it wasn't an outright ban, but unreasonable tariffs on chinese evs specifically. a soft ban, but enough to be as effective.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 41 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The official reason for tariffs is government subsidy AFAIK, but in reality the moment they lower the tariffs, US and EU automobile industry is done.

[–] Enelop@lemm.ee 24 points 1 week ago (8 children)

The heavy subsidy by the Chinese government is the reason they would dominate though. The tariffs won’t ever be lifted unless they stop manipulating the prices to be lower than domestic competitors…

[–] bamboo@lemm.ee 21 points 1 week ago (9 children)

They would dominate because they make a good product that isn’t more expensive than it has to be. US car companies have discontinued most affordable options to try and force people to only buy larger, higher end vehicles that most people have no use for. Now they’re mad that international companies are willing to sell the products they refuse to.

[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, usa car companies are bitches. But it is laughable that you think the reason it isn't more expensive has nothing to do with being subsidized

[–] Enelop@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The reason it is vastly less expensive is due to being subsidized. You don’t seem to understand what is being said and can be backed by facts.

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[–] JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago (9 children)

Government providing money to create innovative new tech and make it available at a lowe cost to their constituents

Manipulating the prices to be lower

I just wanted to point out the pervasiveness of capitalist propaganda here. They're not manipulating prices, they're helping their people. It just so happens that our capitalistic systems don't do well when someone helps their neighbor because then we can't abuse them.

Now don't get me wrong though, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you the Chinese government does no wrong. But in just this particular case I think we're picking the wrong battle

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[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If China is subsidizing the vheicle and we purchase them here, that means we are drawing from China's subsidies.

The claim is this is to save industries but the notion that was need to save specific industry is never questioned.

We're told we're protecting jobs but that's bullshit. We're only protecting the profits of capitalists.

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[–] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 40 points 1 week ago (3 children)

how fast would it cause the battery to degrade, though?

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 39 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That's the beauty of it. Just get a new one every two years like every other electronic device and you won't need to worry about that. Subscription plans will be available.

[–] Kyle_The_G@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I wish the batteries were modular/interchangeable. You could just pull into a station, remove the spent battery and replace it with a full one, the spent one can then just get recharged and stored at the station for the next user to change out. You could even bring some extra ones in the trunk for a long trip!

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The problem is the form factor. They're broad, flat batteries under the floor of the car, because that's the most available space when you take out the drivetrain. If you wanted to make them swappable, you'd have to sacrifice the space under the hood or the trunk. Or the passenger space. And all that comes with their own safety concerns.

[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

They can drop the battery out from underneath…. You’re not seriously suggesting that this would be done by users and not automatically? The easiest place for this would be exactly where it is now, underneath EVERYTHING.

It’s not like you are gonna man handle the battery yourself in and out of these dude.

The precedence is there, there’s scooters that already utilize this exact exchanging. Hell forklifts figured this out decades ago… and you want to make it sound like it would be an issue in todays age? Semis have used it for years too, why do you think they would go back to manually doing it? Even if the batteries were light enough to move by hand, you would spend more time unplugging and plugging them back in than it would be to charge them….

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[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago

There is a company that does this in China. You lease the battery, and pay roughly the same amount as a tank of fuel to swap it, so not a cheap process, and it only works on a small number of vehicles. They're also losing money hand over fist, and aren't likely to last very long.

Also, a long trip is precisely when I need all my trunk space.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I have a Chinese flashlight and the battery trademark is so unfortunate (soonfire) like WTF. Lol.

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[–] Mihies@programming.dev 8 points 1 week ago

Not necessarily as they are using LFP chemistry which has much more cycles than the standard one.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 37 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Stuff I've heard on naysays:

"The battery will blow up!!!!!"

No, it won't if it's a solid state battery - solid state batteries barely even notice such a charging rate, their temperature might change by half a degree from this monster charging rate.

"You can't supply the power because lines"

Modern large commercial buildings already suck down this amount and more.

"The grid overall can't take 1MW"

So, the 1,000 MW nuclear reactor can't provide 1MW? How about a reactor station with 4 units cranking 4000 MW? How about we add another 1000 in renewables? How about another 800MW with a single gas turbine? How about adding roof solar and a battery bank below ground for the charging station to supplement the power? We haven't even touched hydro or geo yet. Making power is not a problem, and we'll build out the power as we need it.

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[–] deadkennedy@lemm.ee 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

this would be a massive leap for EVs

[–] Enelop@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I’m sure it’s similar to how they trained DeepSeek for $5M when it was really over a $1B…

They make all kinds of false claims.

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[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 24 points 6 days ago (2 children)

But will it smell as good as filling up a tank of gas?

[–] GreatRam@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It dispenses a small cup of gasoline to sniff while it charges

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[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 21 points 6 days ago (9 children)

Maybe with a supercapacitor in the station and a chrging cable with the diameter of a fuel hose.

[–] Rob1992@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Not really, just make the vehicle 800v and then use the same Amp limits. That's where everyone is out pacing tesla now. Tesla went for amps, the others went for volts

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

Energy is amp x volt. Same energy faster is more energy in same time, be it amps or volt. Dunno if your grid can bear it multiple times in each city but still better buffer it. And more volts needs more gum or you get the volts.

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[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Assuming this is about the same thing as the other BYD charging article I saw a couple days ago, they're using a higher voltage, which would let them charge faster without needing a thicker* cable.

(* The copper need not be thicker, but the insulation might need to be)

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[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 15 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Is charging speed really the biggest issue with EV's?

[–] wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 6 days ago (1 children)

More like charging availability imo. Not everyone has a garage to conveniently charge in after a day's work. If you make charging speeds fast enough like with gas, you can negate that though.

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[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 19 points 6 days ago

Only by perception, but it practicality mattered, we wouldn't be ligging around two tons of steel per person everywhere we went.

[–] dance_ninja@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If you're going on a long road trip, yes.

[–] Takumidesh@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

But is it really?

A 2000 mile road trip with 20 minute charging breaks is gonna add what? 3 and a half hours on top of 30 hours of driving?

Unless you plan on doing a bunch of meth and speeding across the desert, I don't see a scenario where a regular person does 8+ hours of driving and doesn't take a 20 minute break.

I'd like to add that for the once in 20 years that car sees a 2000 mile road trip, I don't think waiting a little bit is actually an issue.

Take an honest reflection, and think, how often are people driving driving more than 300 miles in a single session.

Then think about yourself in the position of the road trip, are you going to sacrifice the lifespan of your battery to go from 20 minutes to 5 minutes charging time?, (especially since it's likely you will spend more than 5 minutes anyway just going to the bathroom, eating some food, etc.)

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[–] asbestos@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I always think about an “imaginary” scenario where we all have ultra fast charging like this and plug our cars in at the same time. Would the grid experience a brownout?

[–] Atom@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I studied this a bit in my MS and the answer is... probably not. "The grid will collapse" has been an anti-technology or pro fossil fuel talking point for a very long time, whether* its arguing against renewables or against personal computers or against AC units. The most recent was solar. Grid operators were adamant that solar would crash the grid if it accounted for more than 10%, then 20%, then 30% and so on and it never happened. Now it's onto EVs being the grid destroyer.

The reality is that production and use is not all that hard to predict. Ultrafast charging will eat some power, but that isn't going to be the norm for wide EV adoption. Public charging will cost more money and be less convenient than charging at home or work over a longer duration. Home chargers are capping around 30-35 amps, generally overnight when grid demand is low. Couple this with the combined low cost for residential solar to change at even lower rates depending on your state/nation's hostility to solar.

Now, if every car was replaced with an EV tomorrow, the grid would struggle. But that's not going to happen. Adoption will be a long slow process and energy producers will increase output on pace as demand forecasts increase. A good parallel to this is Air Conditioning adoption. That's another high demand appliance that went from rare to common. The grid has its challenges, but now the AC usage is forcastable and rarely challenges the grid.

Is it a challenge, especially with higher renewable mixtures, yes. Can utilities fumble? Of course. Will it be a widespread brownout every day during commute hours? Not likely.

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[–] Skua@kbin.earth 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Things like that can definitely be accomodated. A famous example is how the UK would keep pumped storage hydro power ready for moments like half time in major football games or breaks in popular TV shows, because the entire country would pretty much simultaneously put their kettles on

Charging a car is a much bigger draw than powering a kettle, obviously, but the point is that these things tend to be reasonably predictable and we are able to ccount for them if we know they are coming

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[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 9 points 1 week ago (5 children)

The hurdle to this kind of fast charging isn't the tech in the car nor is it the tech in the charger. It's powering the fucking things.

A charging station the size of a small gas station that can handle a dozen cars at once, basically 6 islands with a pump / charger on each side, would require a nuclear reactor sitting out back to supply the required 1.2 Megawatts of power!

So we're either going to have to get comfy with having an SMR sitting next to every charging station or we're going to have to get over this idea of charging an EV pack in 5 minutes.

[–] Shark03@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago (3 children)

People just have the wrong idea about EV charging. They think of it like a gas car, wait until you're low, then go somewhere to fill up. But really, it’s more like charging your phone. You plug it in at home, go to bed, wake up, and it’s ready. You’re not constantly thinking about it.

Fast charging is for road trips, not everyday driving. You’re not supposed to be scrambling to find a charger every couple of days. Ideally, you start each morning with 80%, go about your day, come home, plug in, and do it all over again. You’re never really "empty" unless you seriously mess up. And the whole "how long does it take to charge?" thing, isn't really all that relevant. You’re not sitting there watching it, it just happens while you’re doing other things.

People are stuck on the idea of gas stations, but with an EV, your "gas station" is literally your house.

So ideally it wouldn't be handling 12 cars at once it'd be handling one or two.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Unfortunately, the infrastructure for the standard use case you talk about isn't pervasive enough. Most apartments don't have chargers at all, let alone one per apartment. You can drive by a Tesla or DC fast charge station at almost any time of day in a big city and see a line of cars waiting to use the small number of chargers. People are taking naps in their car in a bank parking lot while charging. Kudos to them for embracing the inconvenience of not charging at home to help the environment, but I never would have bought my 2 EVs if I didn't have charging at home.

[–] Shark03@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Thats a great point as well, if you live in an apartment the best you can hope for is if you have a garage with an outlet and your apartment complex hasn't cracked down on you plugging in that way, but that's like 20 miles charge in several hours.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 9 points 1 week ago

People are taking naps in their car in a bank parking lot while charging.

Missed opportunity, right there, because even the operators still think in terms of "gas station". Get a plot of land with a nice view, build a cafe, build a couple of charging stations. Make it a destination people want to go to regardless whether they need a fill-up or not.

Heck, whatever happened to car cinemas.

[–] ifmu@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Yeah this is the idea. Personally I think charging needs more emphasis on at-work and apartment charging because if you don’t live at a house, you essentially rely on public charging which isn’t good for the battery.

Also more hotels should have charging. Having to drive 15 minutes away just to charge is annoying.

[–] Shark03@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

The other annoying thing is when you find a L2 charger at a hotel that is actually just an L1 charger in disguise.

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[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

15 MW power needed, while a single reactor gives 500 to 1000 MW. The usual nuclear plant and power lines seem more likely.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The hurdle to this kind of fast charging isn't the tech in the car nor is it the tech in the charger. It's powering the fucking things.

Agreed.

would require a nuclear reactor sitting out back to supply the required 1.2 Megawatts of power!

Eh....

At 5 minutes a car, each charger would be able to accommodate 12 cars per hour. The 12-charger station, fed by that nuclear reactor, would be able to handle 144 per hour.

A typical gas station that size has an 8500 gallon tank, and refills 2-5 times per week. That amount of fuel will serve somewhere between 1000 to 3000 cars per week, or about 6 to 18 cars per hour.

This doesn't call for a nuclear reactor at the station. This calls for a sufficiently large battery pack at each station that can "trickle" charge continuously. I say "trickle" - if I did my math right, it would be about as much power as 15 hot tubs or 60 water heaters. About as much as a grocery store, with all its freezers, refrigerators, lights, HVAC, etc.

Certainly a lot of power, but certainly not outside the realm of possibility. On-site solar installations could offset a significant percentage of that demand.

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