Ask Lemmy

Imagine a hundred runners entering an insanely long footrace. Before the race starts, the official says that due to his complexion, one runner will start running at the second gunshot, and the other runners will begin at the first gunshot. The darker skinned runner contests, but those are the rules and if he wants to race, he must follow them.

BLAM

The palest runners are off and running while the other one anticipates the second gunshot. He patiently waits, but it doesn't come. After ten minutes, the runner complains to the official, but he repeats that these are the rules, and if you just wait patiently, it'll be your turn. After an hour the crowd is outraged by the injustice and begin to protest.

BLAM

The official fires the second shot in order to deescalate the situation and prevent the stadium from being torn apart. The runner is off and he is determined to gain as much ground as possible as the other runners.

At the end of the day, the runners meet up at a checkpoint to rest before the next section of the race. When they announce the official times, the darker skinned man is 50 minutes behind the other runners. He mentions to the officials that he had to wait an hour to start, and that he would have had a better time than many of them if they had started at the same time.

Fine, they say, not wanting another scene like they had at the starting line, "from now on, all runners start at the same time." That's great! So, can I deduct an hour from my time?

WHAT!? WE ALREADY CHANGED THE RULES TO MAKE IT EQUAL. EVERYBODY STARTS AT THE SAME TIME! AND NOW YOU WANT MORE? THE OTHER RUNNERS DIDN'T NEED ANY TIME DEDUCTIONS!

I now see I went too heavy on the caps, but I'm not typing it again.

Anyway, DEI is the one hour time deduction. It's making up for holding them back for so long while everyone else was sprinting ahead. But, those other runners, they were so busy running that they don't know how long it took for that second gunshot to go off. All they see is a runner with a mediocre time getting a 1 hour deduction which moves him to the top 3. The guy getting bumped to fourth is REALLY going to feel cheated, and resent the system that gave that guy an hour just because of his skin color.

It's actually a bit ironic, because CRT is viewed by many White Americans as a theory which demonizes them; but CRT also defines how racism has harmed poor white people in the past and continues to do so today.

CRT defines the biggest winners of Racism in America as being wealthy white folks. According to CRT, Racism as we know it today, was created as a means to take advantage of poor whites. Rich plantation owners recognized slavery caused great economic harm to poorer whites who did not own slaves. So a solution to stop revolt was to create this system of Race so that poor whites would remain divided from black slaves, and not work together to retaliate.

CRT also claims that this is still occuring today. Racism continues to divide poor white people from poor people of color so that they don't work together to fight against Injustice.

I understand and sympathize with where you're coming from. I don't have all the counter arguments, but one that stuck with me while I was devils advocating it with two of my friends is pretty convincing I think. (Mind you, I'm drunk on a Friday night at 3 AM, so just posting this before I forget to do it tomorrow).

One of your arguments (not all!) is built on an opposing side abusing the cultural impact of CRT/DEI. However, that can be applied as a premise to a slew of other political efforts with the same mechanics where the singling out of a group can be twisted into discrimination of an adjacent group:

• Americans with Disabilities Act
• Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD) for Alaskans
• Shelters and Services Program for Immigrants
• Any policies surrounding Native Americans

In all the above programs, one could make the case that there are adjacent groups that do not, but maybe should, receive those benefits. CRT/DEI is the easiest target to gather people around. It doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's just the most prominent and easily targetable policy.

All that doesn't invalidate CRT/DEI or any of the other policies, and even with political opposition one could still argue for their benefit. So, my point is this: Bad actors abusing and misrepresenting a program that focuses on specific groups is not an argument against that policy. If it didn't exist, they'd latch on to something else. So you're letting a policy be ruined, not based on its merits, but on how others can twist a narrative around it.

Again, you have made other points that I'm not addressing at all in this argument. I'll let others argue against those.

I see it as a "I don't see color" kind of thing. You may be able to see it as "just" a class war, but people who may be a different race, or disabled, etc., can't do that because those factors can change how you're treated. Saying we should ignore it or rebrand it as a class war is disregarding the reprocussions that race plays in the class war. What communities get funding? What communities have good schools? What communities have food deserts? Who gets promoted to leadership?

Before these things came to be, America was very much class-war only in my opinion, which is why boomer white Americans did so well. They were all seen as the same community, so raising them up was raising them all up. So they had Veterans benefits and programs after the war to help them get housing and education. Unions protected their members. But those programs didn't always extend to POC, if at all. That's why we have to keep an eye on it. It's not just class that affects people, and not talking about it allows the majority to pretend it isn't happening, or is a minor issue. I think it also facilities the silencing of minorities as their issues seem "fringe" or like complaints.

The system was not built for a lot of people, and we have to keep reminding people of that. Because what's going on in the US is showing that. They're worried about anti-Christians and immigrants, transgenders, etc. Even if those people are also poor, that won't save them if we just see class. A middle class, transgender woman who may have been a "good guy" is now an enemy be cause of their gender identity alone. A black man being followed in a store is not being followed for class reasons. People with disabilities having trouble just existing are not having that trouble (solely) because of class.

Getting rid of DEI/CRT makes the loudest voice everyone's voice. And that person is usually not looking out for us.

The facts are that black Americans are worse off than other groups in almost every way we can measure. There are two competing theories to explain this.

1-the systems of our society are biased against black people. That's Systemic-Racism. 2-black people are inferior to everyone else. That's racism, original recipe.

How are these systems biased against black people? That's what the field of CRT seeks to answer.

I'm not sure what Cathode Ray Tubes have to do with any of this.

If you want us to talk you out of your position we need you to describe what exactly you think CRT and DEI actually are in your own words.

If you can invest your time in explaining those things as you understand them then I am willing to discuss it with you.

If you copy paste from the net I will call you out and take that as a hostile response.

proven multiple times and confirmed by multiple studies: communities that welcome immigrants have higher education rates, better incomes, higher productivity, and lower crime than communities based on exclusion/exclusivity/isolation/separation

conservatives use “CRT” and “DEI” to sow polarization because they know even they’d get blowback if they admitted they were just anti-empathy/pro-hatred/anti-equality

DEI is racist AF! Everyone should get the same opportunities and we should not reward people for the color of their skin etc.