this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2025

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546

Canada must use all means to resist a Trump-led hostile US takeover. (rabble.ca)

submitted 2 days ago by Mee@reddthat.com to c/canada@lemmy.ca

67 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Trump’s threats to Canada are not idle boasts and shouldn’t be taken as such. They call for a whole of society response.

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[–] sloppychops@lemmy.ca 84 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Never thought I'd ever say it, but I'm not terribly opposed to an independent Canadian nuclear deterrent these days.

I can think of no other workable solution if we're serious about remaining Canadian. The Ricans would steamroll us conventionally. Without a credible deterrent, Slobba the Slut could very well ramble himself incoherently from 'economic pressure' to 'occupational force.' We don't know what his puppetmasters and wormtongues are whispering in his ear, or how far he and his sycophants are willing to go for a cheaper egg.

[–] fourish@lemmy.world 29 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Canada can easily manufacture nukes. We have all of the scientific and technical skills to pull it off. I hope we never need one of the damn things though.

That said if a dump invasion took place I’m sure we could count on France to give us one to decapitate the dump.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

The French nuclear umbrella being extended to other EU states is still only a suggestion (though even as just a suggestion it is a very strong political message). What that would mean for French nuclear doctrine in practice is yet unclear. Would France nuke Russian troops/infrastructure/cities and risk all-out nuclear war to protect Romania? Moldova?

Funnily enough the entire reason why France has an independent Nuclear program at all is De Gaulle did not trust the US to risk New York being glassed in order to save Paris from a Russian invasion. Which was probably correct. Unfortunately, the reverse logic also applies and France will not risk Paris being glassed to save Toronto. The only reason why a sovereign European nuclear umbrella makes sense on paper is that an attack on any EU member state hits close enough to home as to arguably be existentially threatening, unlike a war an ocean away.

Unless you meant France selling nukes, but that would violate every nonproliferation treaty out there and just be a complete mess that even with a sane US administration would lead to a complete diplomatic meltdown. The current suicide cult at the helm would probably actually start a nuclear war for less than that.

[–] Bublboi@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Saint Pierre and Miquelon is French. Don’t they deserve some love?

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's French but has a weird legal status where the citizens are French and therefore have an EU passport and vote in EU elections, but it is not part of the EU and Schengen from what I understand.

Anyway technicalities aside, France generally doesn't care much for its overseas territories. Quality of living varies wildly from territory to territory and there's still ongoing mid 20th century style colonial oppression in places like Nouvelle-Calédonie.

So while a Falklands type situation is quite possible if anyone tries to invade an overseas French territory, it's doubtful that France would risk actual nuclear war over one. Especially Saint Pierre and Miquelon which does not have a strategic military value as far as I can tell, unlike other territories which serve as force projection multipliers and have naval bases, especially for the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier and the nuclear deterrence submarines. Without those France wouldn't be able to operate in the Pacific theater.

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm not sure we can. Our reactors don't produce the right material, I think. We should buy from France, tomorrow.

[–] Splitdipless@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 days ago

CANDU reactors don't make Pu out of the natural U we use as we break down to daughter elements. That being said, two things:

We have lots of U. Enrichment is new to us, but we would be technically capable of starting. U bombs are possible, but not preferred for various reasons.
If India can get Pu from a CIRUS (which was basically a NRX), we could develop nuclear weapon fuel here.

[–] sloppychops@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

After some quick interneting, apparently we have the technical and industrial capacity to do so, but lack intention, having committed to peaceful, civilian use of the technology through non-proliferation treaties, etc.

I mean, in an ideal world, that's how it should be.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sorry I didn't mean we can't of course we can given the people we have. I meant that I think we don't have the benefit of our reactors producing fissile material suitable for weapons. Could be wrong.

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[–] andrewth09@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

The eggs must flow

[–] Yoga@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Increasing domestic drone and munition (mortar shells, AT mines, grenades) production would be valuable too.

[–] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

This. Ukraine has shown us the way. There is no great counter to cheap drones yet...

[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago

Indeed. Due to our proximity to the US, short/medium ranged arms would be ideal.

Maybe we can talk the French into give us a few TNA's 😉

[–] Splitdipless@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 days ago

Poland is thinking of that.

[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is the kind of thing where I hope we are secretly working on this and are able to make an imminent announcement to make it crystal clear not to test us.

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[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca 46 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I am very glad that Canadians are uniting and sticking up for their local businesses like never before, but we cannot lose sight of what the real danger is.

The US is very unlikely to launch a physical invasion. It would be extremely foolish for numerous reasons, chief of them being our massive unprotected border and how our major urban centres are right beside US cities. We are not a country on the other side of the globe.

No, the real danger is the US economically weakening us and putting us into a position where we are forced to capitulate much like Mexico. Canada does have leverage over the US but that only remains if we protect our industries which make up our economic backbone. Donald placed a 250% tariff on Canadian dairy which, on paper, seems pointless because the US doesn't really buy any Canadian dairy. But it does send a message that he knows dairy is a protected industry in Canada and he wants to attack it.

It is so important that we have leaders willing to protect these industries and be willing to spend money to expand them.

[–] Peanutbjelly@sopuli.xyz 12 points 2 days ago

Ah yes. I'm glad we can be so confident the current administration would never do something foolish or damaging to themselves or others.

Also it only took them days to stop multi drug resistant tuberculosis treatment half way, and giving countless babies HIV that wouldn't have had it, if not for the recent actions of this administration. Or blatantly and loudly planning an ethnic genocide. Also following the putin method by the letter, and letting Russian media into the oval office while they try to put down Zelenskyy.

Hmm, what is the Russian 'go to' behaviour for shared borders?

I think we need to be developing anti drone tech among other things. I'm not saying it will happen, and it would likely instigate or be included in a civil war. I would usually think all of this sounds crazy, but we live in unprecedented times, full of familiar historical rhymes. I'm sure their preference is to take over without having to actually fight, so they can grow their power, but also things might escalate as they continue to rob and abuse the masses. There are more reasons than i can summize here, but I think pretending there is no danger is wilfully ignorant at this point. I hope for the best, but I don't trust these people to not be thoughtlessly monstrous.

[–] noxypaws@pawb.social 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The US is very unlikely to launch a physical invasion. It would be extremely foolish

It would be extremely foolish to avoid preparing to defend yourselves based on expecting this administration to avoid foolishness.

[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I never said we should avoid it.

Canada should 100% be securing its borders, arms, and making new allies. Joint military cooperation with the EU would be a huge boon, as would civil defence measures. Finland is a great example of how to prepare when living next to a hostile power.

[–] thijsje@social.vivaldi.net 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

@TheFeatureCreature @noxypaws I think Finland is a good model, also for other European countries. Western European countries especially could do with some societal resiliance and militancy.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Finland went full Tropic Thunder in joining NATO. They had a good model.

[–] Punchshark@lemmy.ca 31 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Canada will be waiting fuckers!

[–] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

God damn right we will. Stock up now folks. There are loads of things you can have on hand to be ready and simple training you can get in a weekend or two to assist.

[–] lineofkings@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What training do you suggest?

[–] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

First aid.

Drone operation or building

PAL for firearms.

Cooking classes.

How to grow, forage, harvest foods.

Food storage. Canning, dehydrating, fermenting, curing, root cellars, refrigeration.

Train on HAM Radio and find trusted independent alternate media sources and follow CBC and open source social media for news and organizing.

Fitness of all kinds including self defense.

Survival or wilderness experience.

Learn to drive a standard transmission or a large truck or operate a piece of heavy equipment or large farm equipment.

Small engine repair or basic construction skills.

Those with medical training update your trauma training.

Consider joining the reserves.

Learn how to operate a chainsaw.

Rescue training.

High angle and confined space training.

Swimming lessons, diving lessons, boating course.

Computer programming, design and 3D printing.

Classes on the manipulation tactics of social media.

Create permanent personal media backups of important information including Wikipedia, entertainment, and Foss based software that can operate free of internet connections or obscure your location and personal information to the best of your ability.

Volunteer at a local mutual aid org (food banks, search and rescue, volunteer fire or ambulance, community gardens, drop in centers, youth training programs, libraries, municipal rec departments etc.)

Contact your MLA, MP, Mayor and Council about starting a civil defense League and leaving social media sites from American oligarchs.

And most of all organize. Talk to your neighbors and friends about what they are doing to prepare. Help one another. There are so many things we can do to educate ourselves and find like minded community members to start organizing. The organizing and meeting people is what makes us stronger. The rest is just a bonus.

[–] Snowstorm@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 days ago

To add : Support communication infrastructure outside of AWS : that can be as simple as showing up on Lemmy regularly, visiting CBC website and a variety of Canadian information sources all the way to having a computer offline with a copy of early 2025 Wikipedia and various open sources software and decent local LLM.

Community involvement will be for two objectives: increasing preparedness is evident but also your own mental health that will be way more stable with you actively doing something tangible + the support network.

[–] lineofkings@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago

Wow this is epic!!!! Thanks for sharing. Every Canadian needs to step up with this stuff.

[–] Splitdipless@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Add HAM radio to the list!

[–] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

Good one. Will do.

[–] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is a great list, and considering I am approaching old, happy to report that it's almost like my non-work CV. Feeling nearly prepped, never fully.

ADHD has been good for gathering a basic set of skills in a wide range of situations.

Next is to play with community mesh networks and work on the Ham radio experience.

[–] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Same. I basically just detailed my life in a list. I did leave out how to make hockey ice but maybe that should be included as well. Seems strange to be old and realize you can do so many things. Also mostly due to unchecked ADHD and PTSD in my circumstance.

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[–] ITguru@feddit.nl 17 points 2 days ago

Unbelievable shit. You're brothers from Europe are with you.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The only takeover Canada is risking at this moment is one from within. It's insane there is anyone in Canada that wants to be part of the US... And apparently there's a decent number of these idiots.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Yeah it's like 10%

The CBC interviewed one of these people and that guy was basically only cared about money and though paying lower taxes would be better. Probably didn't factor in paying more money for health insurance.

But there was a guy nearby out walking his dog. When told what the interview was about he said "Is that what that rock over there is for? So we can throw it at him?"

I think it's just terminally online people that are greedy as fuck. But there isn't much risk of that 10% taking us over. If anything, they're the ones taking a risk if they express their collaborator bullshit publicly. 10% with soft support vs. 90% that are absolutely against everything they're about.

[–] h6pw5@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago

Don’t underestimate the number of idiots that will vote to inflict pain on everyone. Fight it, if you can. Signed, a population learning the hard way.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

We're also underestimating how much Americans pay for insurance every month. It's like a whole second rent. Which I guess we pay through higher taxation but then again, we don't have to worry about setting up a gofundme if we get sick. Not to mention the secondary effects of this precarity: the whole premise of Breaking Bad for example doesn't make sense in Canada.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago

Yeah so much of American culture is influenced by their terrible healthcare. Feelgood stories about people pooling together their money to help someone with their medical bills. It making sense to sue a family member for being injured in their house because it'll mean their insurance will cover the medical bills.

It's really insane.

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Citizens of the world, I'm begging you not to trust my country. If they've been so awful to me, a citizen born here, there's no telling what they'll do to you.

[–] peteyestee@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I second this. America is an enemy of humanity in multiple ways. Our culture is a culture of materialist escapism and our people are indoctrinated to be pawns for an ignorant machine of an evil force that manipulates and uses humanity as fuel.

[–] sndmn@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 days ago (3 children)

This could be pretty scary if the US had an evil and competent leader.

Given Jabba the Trump's track record, he'll surrender in about 3 months.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 33 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yeah we need deterrents. This shit ain't funny anymore and there's no guarantee Trump will be the last in the string of fascists.

[–] lineofkings@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 days ago

Exactly they’re repopulating themselves like cancer. On socials they’re regurgitating MAGA/Trump bs talking points. It’s the American culture at this point to do hostile takeovers. They’ve always been this way. We just never thought it would happen to us.

[–] sloppychops@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

His son is already floating the idea of running in 2028, so the wild ride with this particular fascistic dynasty is far from over. It will probably continue into the next decade or so, at the very least. And if Canada maintains its sovereignty over the next four years, that does not mean we're in the clear. Far from it.

I'm 100% with you on 'deterrents.' I think it would reveal an extreme lack of competence, not to mention a dangerous lack of planning for our leaders not to consider seriously the idea of a robust deterrent at this point. I hope it's already being floated.

The fact that our leadership created the conditions for or allowed to worsen our over-reliance on a single trading partner doesn't speak much to the levels of competence we should expect out of Ottawa.

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[–] NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

i declare war to start on march 25th

actually war is pushed back to April 1st

ok it’s war time! wait why is my economy hurting, pause the war

ok war for real now. wait, sorry one sec, war partially pushed back to next month

why is Canada attacking us?

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[–] overcooked_sap@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Considering how pissed off and united we are over some off the cuff comments about 51st state and the fact it’s personal for trump, he really hates Trudeau, I don’t think they would be ready for the absolute carnage some of us would unleash on them. IRA showed everyone the way forward.

[–] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago

I wouldn't say months of repeated messaging in official speeches is "off the cuff"

[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Imagine marching troops in only to retreat after 18 hours of something stupid.

[–] sloppychops@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Who had 'Canada invokes article 5 as Trump prepares land grab over price of eggs.'

You've heard of Lebensraum, but who expected we'd be worrying about trumps insatiable lust for Eierraum.

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[–] LonstedBrowryBased@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There are many of us in the US who will help the resistance

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I recommend you follow the "Simple Sabotage Field Manual" the CIA put out many moons ago. :)

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