this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2025

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178

Whats the worst book anyone has ever recommended you? (piefed.zip)

submitted 2 days ago by Maven@piefed.zip to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Uh, I'm pretty sure the Qur'an is pretty explicit in naming the Bible and Torah as corrupted text that was modified with intent to change the meaning and resultant laws.

I mean its entire basis is that it has remained unchanged ever since it was revealed, hence there are no versions/revisions like the Bible.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Uh, I'm pretty sure the Qur'an is pretty explicit in naming the Bible and Torah as corrupted text that was modified with intent to change the meaning and resultant laws.

No, it's not. In fact, on this hill the Qur'an falls apart.

The Qur'an doesn't ever mention the Bible and the Torah as corrupted.

Surah 5:47

So let the people of the Gospel judge by what allah has revealed in it. And those who do not judge by what allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the rebellious

(This assumes we still have said Gospel)

Surah 5:66

Someone among them(Christians) are upright yet many do nothing but evil

So there are good Gospel followers about - meaning they must have the Gospel. So we know the Gospel existed in Mohammed's time uncorrupted. Thankfully, we still know what the Bible looked like back then. And it is essentially the same as what we have now.

Surah 3:3-4

He has revealed to you oh prophet, the book in truth, confirming what came before (in his time) it the Torah and the Gospel previously, as a guide for people, and also revealed the standard to distinguish right from wrong. Surely those who reject allah's revelations will suffer severe torment. For allah is almighty and capable of punishment

So the Torah and Gospel are both revelations from allah. And they are thus the word of allah.

Surah 6:34

“Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,”

Surah 6:115

“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,”

Surah 10:64

“For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity,”

So the words of allah, such as the Gospel cannot be corrupted. So if the Gospel was corrupted, Islam is false. If the Gospel wasn't corrupted then it doesn't "confirm" the Qur'an at all, so Islam is false. This is the Islamic Dilemma.

Interestingly enough, the Hadith records that the Qur'an was changed:

Sahih Muslim Book 4, Hadith Number 1787.

SAHIH MUSLIM BOOK 4. PRAYER

Chapter : Excellence of one who acts upon (the teachings of the) Qur’an and one who teaches it.

Ubayy b. Ka’b reported: I was in the mosque when a man entered and prayed and recited (the Qur’an) in a style to which I objected. Then another man entered (the mosque) and recited in a style different from that of his companion. When we had finished the prayer, we all went to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said to him: This man recited in a style to which I objected, and the other entered and recited in a style different from that of his companion. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked them to recite and so they recited, and the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) expressed approval of their affairs (their modes of recitation) and there occurred In my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saw how I was affected (by a wrong idea), he struck my chest, whereupon I broke into sweating and felt as though I were looking at Allah with fear. He (the Holy Prophet) said to me: Ubayy, a message was sent to me to recite the Qur’an in one dialect, and I replied: Make (things) easy for my people. It was conveyed to me for the second time that it should be recited in two dialects. I again replied to him: Make affairs easy for my people. It was again conveyed to me for the third time to recite in seven dialects And (I was further told): You have got a seeking for every reply that I sent you, which you should seek from Me. I said: O Allah ! forgive my people, forgive my people, and I have deferred the third one for the day on which the entire creation will turn to me, including even Ibrahim (peace be upon him) (for intercession).

https://hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/sahih-muslim-book-04-prayer/sahih-muslim-book-004-hadith-number-1787

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 41, Hadith Number 601.

SAHIH BUKHARI BOOK 41. LOANS, PAYMENT OF LOANS, FREEZING OF PROPERTY, BANKRUPTCY.

Narated By ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab : I heard Hisham bin Hakim bin Hizam reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to that of mine. Allah’s Apostle had taught it to me (in a different way). So, I was about to quarrel with him (during the prayer) but I waited till he finished, then I tied his garment round his neck and seized him by it and brought him to Allah’s Apostle and said, “I have heard him reciting Surat-al-Furqan in a way different to the way you taught it to me.” The Prophet ordered me to release him and asked Hisham to recite it. When he recited it, Allah s Apostle said, “It was revealed in this way.” He then asked me to recite it. When I recited it, he said, “It was revealed in this way. The Qur’an has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easier for you.”

https://hadithcollection.com/sahihbukhari/sahih-bukhari-book-41-loans-payment-of-loans-freezing-of-property-bankruptcy/sahih-bukhari-volume-003-book-041-hadith-number-601

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean its literally right at the beginning in Surah 2:75 and 2:79, which is why I remember:

Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allāh and then distort it [i.e., the Torah] after they had understood it while they were knowing?

So woe to those who write the scripture with their own hands, then say, This is from Allāh, in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

So the words of allah, such as the Gospel cannot be corrupted. So if the Gospel was corrupted, Islam is false. If the Gospel wasn't corrupted then it doesn't "confirm" the Qur'an at all, so Islam is false. This is the Islamic Dilemma.

Is such a weird argument that makes no sense from what you just provided. AFAIK the quote you gave is talking about "words of Allah", which indicates his power and decree, ie everything that happens is because of him, and it will happen. Nowhere does it imply that his revelation cannot be altered by humans.

I would talk about the Qur'an also explicitly stating about its superceded position, but you quoted your first quote wrong:

Surah 4:57 is:

But those who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide forever. For them therein are purified spouses, and We will admit them to deepening shade.

So I'm not really sure which quote you meant to use.

As for the 7 versions, those were specific subdialects on how the pronunciation slightly changed that you can still find today but no one uses since they decided to standardize on one when writing it during the first caliphate iirc.

[–] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 0 points 1 day ago

It says "after they had understood it" and doesn't imply writing.

This is backed by 2:74

Even then your hearts became hardened like a rock or even harder, for some rocks gush rivers; others split, spilling water; while others are humbled in awe of Allah. And Allah is never unaware of what you do.

It seems to be referring to present tense. It goes on:

2:75

Do you ˹believers still˺ expect them to be true to you, though a group of them would hear the word of Allah then knowingly corrupt it after understanding it?

So, a group of them corrupted it. Only a group would corrupt their beliefs.

2:89 goes on to make it clear they still had the scripture "in their hands"

Although they used to pray for victory ˹by means of the Prophet˺ over the polytheists, when there came to them a Book from Allah which they recognized, confirming the Scripture they had ˹in their hands˺, they rejected it. So may Allah’s condemnation be upon the disbelievers.

In addition, the Qur'an does ask it's followers to check with Christians on if it's true or not.

Surah 10:94

If you are in doubt about what we have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Book before you.

I also apologise for my typo. I meant 5:47, not 4:57 and have amended it