this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2025
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So many people don’t understand why we live in a society, and apparently have no capacity for empathy.
They’re free to go live in the wilderness, with no roads, no fire department, no water or electricity, no services whatever, and find out how much they’re actually benefiting from our collective.
They won’t, because though they like to complain, they’re pussies who can’t be bothered to think for 5 minutes that the fact they can read and write their snarky bullshit is because they benefitted from free education, else they’d be illiterate.
But gods forbid they pay back the overwhelming amount they benefit from society in a small way. It’s fucking infuriating.
As someone who works on private wells and water systems, its always baffling to me when someone with a "hunt camp" more luxurious than any house I'll ever afford is complaining about the cost of our services. Like dude your "camp" is 2000 sqft and 200 kms from the nearest city. Yea its gonna cost a bit to make your well water clean, clear, and safe to drink while running on a solar system.
They'll even start to question my wage and why the bill costs so much (as if i have any say) completely tone death to the struggles of people outside their class. They imply if i was paid less their bill would be much cheaper despite me barely making enough to own my own tiny home and my wages really aren't a major cost on the bill.
if you guys don't have much competition, you should start treating those customers fairly
and by fairly I mean treat them how they treat you
Sounds like you need to raise your rate. And also not break out your wage from the other costs in the invoice.
You are not free to do any of those things as the land is owned and you would be squatting. These people are removed by force. There is no choice except engage with society as there are no other options.
You’d have to buy your own land, of course.
But you could buy a tiny plot in the middle of nowhere, not hook up any utilities or have roads, and just live off your land if you wanted.
There are small parcels in the middle of noplace that nobody wants because there are no roads, utilities, or other services.
Small parcels? Australia and many other places are pretty much empty. And yes, nobody wants to be there for a reason.
Yeah, but ‘nobody wants to be there for a reason’ is my whole point.
It will absolutely suck for you. That’s why civilisation is better, and also why we have to make some concessions to be in a society.
There’s no utopia where everything is perfect. There never was.
If you want societal amenities, you have to pay for them in some small way, and if you don’t, your life will be very hard. Those have always been the choices.
I know. I just wanted to point out that the are huge swaths of land that are empty, not buy tiny patches.
That's the neat part. They do try, repeatedly, and it always fails. A classic one is Grafton. It's also known as A Libertarian Walks into a Bear because their little paradise got overrun by aggressive bears. Lack of public services will do that.
we live in a society, while rich people live in an economy
Where?
This is what I want to do, but I can’t afford to buy land on which to do it (and not just any land is useful for this either, it needs to be capable of supporting people before you can count it). Land enough to support a small homestead isn’t cheap, and zoning/local laws often restricts what you can do on it. So for example you may buy land, but not be allowed to drill a well, even if you have the means and knowledge to do so. Or if you buy land you can afford, you may not be allowed to build a permanent structure on it at all.
You’ll get kicked out (and possibly fined) of both state and national parks in the US if they find you “permanently camping”, which they are likely to do since there are frequently people out there. The only other option is squatting on private property. If you get caught before whatever time passes for squatters laws to take effect, you lose everything you’ve built up.
I mean don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind paying for things I’ll never use because it makes society as a whole better. All I’m saying is opting out of living in a society is nearly impossible for most people even if they are ok with not having all the stuff society funds like roads and fire control.
Search off-grid properties. They exist.
For the downvoters, here are some in the US:
https://www.landsearch.com/off-grid/united-states
Plenty of gorgeous listings.
And in Australia:
https://www.realestate.com.au/news/for-sale-australias-best-offgrid-properties/
Some very beautiful places, and also some very cheap.
Or Iceland:
https://www.bluehomes.com/buy-secluded-Iceland/ISL/10AL/AL/en/theme3.html
Or Siberia?
https://farmlands-agency.com/
Yes I know, I’ve looked at them. That’s how I know they are quite expensive.
But you never have to pay for utilities, rent, taxes for schools or roads or services … obviously it wouldn’t be completely free to purchase the land.
Ok, but if your plan is to live solo forever and not interact with society, you’d basically need to pay for it upfront. That means you need a lot of money all at once, otherwise you’ll still need income, which limits the ability you have to be separate from society.
Yes, that would need to be the plan. One upfront payment then never paying for utilities or other things forever. That’s the only way this works. You don’t need income, because you live on rabbits and fish and your garden. If your house burns, you put it out with buckets from your stream. You build your house yourself by cutting down trees.
If you get sick, you either die or you don’t.
I think this is madness, but that’s how you do this.
Right, and you get why this is impossible for most people? That was my original point. Most people, even if they want to do this, can’t. It’s unaffordable.
The point is that your suggestion that someone is free to do this is just very much not the case.
Of course I do. And again, that’s my point.
People romanticise this, but it’s impossible for many reasons. You can easily try, but we have societies for a reason.
Everyone is free to do this, but good luck in practice. It’s not just hard, and it’s not just stupid, but why the fuck would you want this? It’s insane, and we’re not geared for this.
Life in the wilderness is not a Disney movie. It’s so ruthlessly difficult, that’s why society exists. We are stronger, safer, and happier together.
It’s almost as if we all rely on each other to exist. If only there was a word for that.
People aren't down voting because they don't think the properties exist, they're down voting because your argument doesn't really make sense. People that are saying, "I'd rather just live in the wilderness" are not the ones that can afford to just purchase land. You almost will certainly have to pay taxes on the land as well.
Saying you can not participate in society by participating in society very hard so you can afford to participate a little less and a little further from society isn't what these people are looking for, they want to hop in a truck with some tools, drive into the woods, never to be seen again. Without a million dollar piece of paper saying they're allowed to.
Well yeah, I get that. But there are plots for really cheap, but they don’t have any kind of access to water, sewage, or whatever. Plots for like 10,000 or less. That sounds like a lot, I suppose, but it isn’t. I think it’s more that people don’t understand how money works,
I like how your dream of self-sufficiency starts with there being g a road you can drive on. Or do you think most woods are reasonable places for driving trucks? You'd be better off buying a donkey or mule. Worst case scenario, you'd have a bit more meat to eat before you starved.
I was speaking figuratively, but if you want to be literal, I never said anything about a road, and there's many kinds of trucks that can drive over many types of terrain.
The kind of truck that can handle any kinds of undeveloped forest are more expensive than the land you say is too expensive for the people who would want to do what you're saying. So, unrealistic expectations all around.