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If we dont pass the torch only the rich will. Is that a world we want to fortify? I'd rather not. Someone has to oppose them. Thats our and our children's fight as the world begins to wane.
That’s our fight—not our unborn childrens’.
Having a child for any purpose other than the flourishing and well-being of that child has always struck me as a deeply flawed decision. If your child doesn’t want to fight for a world they never knew, all you’ve birthed is misery.
Mate, we have to create the environment to flourish. I never said it was fair. I never said it was right. But look at the world around you. Someone has to pick up the banner, and we won't be here forever. You still have to kindle hope.
Also, some people fuck and kids get made, and thats just life.
Amen.
If we try and leave the world better than we found it then we can make space for kids to flourish. Thats our obligation to them.
But we have to actually try, even when it’s hard or inconvenient or unfair.
I can't wrap my head around this. I'm choosing not to have kids because I can't imagine explaining to them some day why I chose to bring them into the world.
Not every child is planned
Right, and that's all well and good, but not what I was talking about.
Okay? I fail to see the relevance of your comment then. Its about how we feel of the children born today. Not how you feel about having children. The children dont have to be your's. They're going to be born whether you approve or not. Giving them a reason to have hope is still a choice you can make.
Obviously my answer to OP's question is "Yes". Now can we have a conversation with more nuance?
I tried but you couldn't wrap.your head around it
But you just gave the same reasons people have been giving forever. That's not very nuanced. Things are measurably different now If you're using the same perspective thinking about this that our parents did, then we're truly getting nowhere
Edit: Or maybe what you're saying is we need to have kids so they can be raised to be some kind of revolutionary super soldiers?
All I'm saying is the fight is coming whether you want it or not. Its at the point where this affects all living things, and the perpetrators don't care and won't stop. Whether you have kids or not, there will still be children. Therefore, you still have a choice to inspire hope in them or not even if you can't understand why people would have children in this time.
Yeah, I know. I think it's asinine that people are out here having kids, pretending that the future is going to be status quo. That's kind of my whole point. I'm not, like, anti-humanity. I have nieces and nephews and I try to inspire them every single day. But I'm also real with them. I let them know that the future is fucked, that many things are past the point of no return, and that we should all be practicing resilience. Humanity will live on, and life will go on, but not the way that it is now. And saying any different is either lying to them or ourselves. That's not hope, that's delusion.
How can we say the future is fucked when all climate scientists are still begging us to take action and saying every little bit will help? We can't. I know its glum. But you still can't tell kids they are fucked. They aren't yet, and right up until all climate scientists commit suicide from the insanity of this whole circus I will still be on the side of hope. Its not delusional. What else have we got to do? Only the wretched accept a bleak tomorrow. And I am still refusing.
Most climate scientists would agree that we're fucked, actually. But most climate scientists would also say that every little bit helps. It's not a binary switch. You and I? Our children and our children's children? They will not live in a safe, sane, or comfortable world. That shipped sailed a couple of years back. But you're right, there is hope. If every corporation and state stopped extracting right now, then in about a 100 years, with a lot of hard work and dedication and an international effort like never before seen, we will return to normal.
So yeah, teaching kids to be good people, and good stewards of the planet is an extremely important and necessary thing right now, but so is teaching them to grow their own food, mend their own clothing, build things, build community. Because that's the only way we get through.
And we're fighting this fight by breeding more wageslaves for the capitalists?
I don't mean to be as dramatic as this comes off, but I don't understand this logic. You don't work extra hard when you want to stick it to the rich, you don't work at all, i.e. go on strike. People not having kids would make sense as a strike of sorts.
Okay and how does people having children automatically force them into wage slavery? Its not a forgone conclusion by any means. Your kid could be the kid who picks up the pieces of capitalism and forges it into an equitable society. We just don't know. So why give in? Why give up on these children before they've truly had their chance? As I said in another comment, you might not have them but children will continue to be born regardless. Might as well foster some hope and kindness. Like Gandalf said, do the little things that keep the darkness at bay.
There will be no rich people if the poor people don't procreate.
Thats why Elon has an army of surrogates right?