The vast majority of people fleeing from war-torn countries today do not flee to Europe. They flee to safer areas within their own countries, then to neighboring countries, then to other culturally similar countries. The number of people who try to make it all the way to Europe and then succeed pales in comparison.
The narrative that there's a huge migration wave from unstable third world countries to Europe is a lie perpetuated by the right wing.
this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2025
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They don't! And that's why I made no such statement!
I repeat what I stated in response to somebody else:
I am not interested in a political discussion nor in the overly-common mud-slinging that desperately attempts to label everyone either a hateful nazi or a moronic lefty. I simply wonder where Europeans would flee to, if there were a war that engulfs all of Europe.
Alas, since you seem to be more interested in other discussions: Saying people don’t flee from war to Europe seems highly deceitful in itself. I just looked at the statistics from Germany (which brought me to my question): By mid-2024, there were roughly 3.5 Million refugees in Germany. Over one million of them were from Ukraine. For the whole of the EU, there appear to be almost 7 million refugees from war-torn areas and a total of 13 million refugees in total (includes internally displaced people), and 1.7 million asylum applicants. Those appear to be official numbers and not right-wing talking points. I suppose in your mind, that means that people don’t flee to Europe?
https://www.unhcr.org/europe/europe-figures-glance-2023
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/zahl-gefluechtete-deutschland-100.html
I'm not sure how your numbers are supposed to counter his argument?
First, Ukrainians are Europeans, so this example falls in the category of refugees going to nearby and culturally similar countries.
Second, you don't mention the number of refugees within Ukraine, so no comparison can be made and you can't argue for or against whether only a faction comes to Europe. Please take the effort to share all the relevant nunbers instead of cherry picking.
How dare you bring logic in our conversation? You even attached sources of your information? That it, you done it, I'll report you!
What's the population of Germany again?
Oh wait, 83,577,140 - so that's just over 3% (3.589%)
That's fuck all. There's more LGBT people in Germany than that.
It's fine and dandy to throw around big numbers, but put them in context
And?
You conveniently ignore the stats, in does happen, instead introducing a goalpost move, aka sophistry, in an attempt to "win" an argument, or at least derail OPs point.
That's not a goalposts move, it's defining the terms, something op never did
3 million sounds HUGE and Alarming, without the context that it's 3% of the population, and therefore not huge, or alarming
Other European countries, other western countries like Canada, Australia, or New Zealand
Canadian here, we'll be there again if you all need us ❤️
Our federal government is making it much harder to immigrate here and many people are being forced to leave the country since they can't become a permanent resident anymore.
I agree with your sentiment, but our government and the average Canadian is far more anti-immigrant than 10 years ago.
Housing crisis really put a damper on things.
In an asylum scenario definitely can be considered but for migration in general we need to stabilize the housing and cost of living situation before we start inviting people over in my opinion. The population is also skewing more elderly (with immigration there being the only balancing factor) there and here so need go make sure our healthcare system is ready for such a migration without causing any institutional shocks.
It only you had massive amounts of land available
That's the least important consideration. When people arrive in the country they don't just get told "here's some land!" And dumped in an open field to make do. The resources needed for them are houses, jobs, health care, and so forth. We don't have vast amounts of that lying around unused.
dumped in an open field to make do.
Literally how Manitoba came to be. 🤣
It works both ways too: more immigration means more people to build roads/houses, staff hospitals etc.
Sure, but it takes time. There's no way we could handle a Europe's worth of refugees pouring in at once.
Since people from war-torn nations often flee to Europe where they tend to get all kinds of help and support
They don't do that at all. That's a deceitful right-wing talking point meant to create xenophobic reactions.
People from war torn nations move to non-war torn parts of their own county, or their direct neighbors. Only a tiny fraction go further, and only a fraction of those go all the way to Europe.
They don’t do that at all.
One side exaggerates things and the other downplays them. Neither are being honest. This is the information landscape we live in now and then we wonder why nobody believes the same set of facts.
Fair. I guess you could read my reply as "they don't flee to Europe at all", but I intended it as "they don't flee to Europe all that often".
I guess I could have been more clear there, but in my defense, I did elaborate.
the other downplays them. Neither are being honest
"I shot my foot off"
"You have a tiny hangnail"
In reality, it's a medium sized hangnail.
"Both sides are dishonest"
Sure, pal. That's why there were so many of them in Europe. And I don't mean it in a bad way, it's pretty fucking normal to flee to a different country when there's war.
You people who need to debunk the right wing conspiracies so much that you create your own are a pretty wild breed.
I think what they meant to say is that only a small fraction flees to Europe.
Take Syria for example. Of all the people displaced by the war, about half left the country (according to my quick Google research). By far the biggest portion of the ones leaving went to Turkey, a neighbouring country (about 4 million). Germany, the European country that took in by far the most Syrian refugees, took in something between half a million and a million, about the same amount as Lebanon, which is about 16 times smaller populationwise. Going down the list, before you get to other European countries, there are several other countries in Syria's neighbourhood — Jordan, Egypt, Iraq.
So I think it's fair to say that the majority of people try to stay in the vicinity of their country and only flee farther if they have to.
If they meant to say it, they should've said it, shouldn't they? Cause what you're saying and what they're saying are two very distinct things.
I live pretty much in the middle of nowhere that is between three mountains and a Scandinavian fjord. I don't see any safer alternatives to where I'm already at.
Any rooms for rent?
My basement. But it's full of wood debris pending a rebuild. Clean it out, and it's yours. Don't tell anyone, though, as I doubt it's legal to live there.
I will flee to neidu3.
Europeans would (will?) flee westward, away from Russian aggression.
Even if most of Europe is party to war, there will still be a front line and limited deep strikes. You don’t just have continent wide war with no place to flee to.
If Russia starts dropping nukes then it won’t be a Europe-problem anyways….
Historically, Argentina and the USA.
Yeah, but the non-Nazis need somewhere to go as well…
This person histories lol
Some might get duped by the Brazilian govt to work on coffee plantations
The USA won't let them in, the way they didn't let in the Jews during WW2.
(Random thoughts, I'm clueless about this subject, it's safer to assume I'm wrong about everything)
USA is an obvious first choice for many. I imagine other developed countries in the Americas will be hotspots too. The big question is which countries would accept mass influxes of European refugees.
I wonder if enough could flee to Africa, and bring some substantial wealth with them... Would that actually help Africa catch up to the developed world? Or would it instead just be new colonialism?
Of course Africa is huge, diverse and messy, so that's a very vague answer/question.
So, this might change in the future and is not representative of every person here, but as an European, the USA would be one of the last places on my list to flee to if I had to. The current administration has made it more than clear that Europeans are not welcome (that doesn't speak for all US Americans, of course, but still).
Canada or a South American country like Brazil would be a much better choice.
If not America, there's North Africa (Tunisia, Egypt), Turkey (which is arguably part of Europe in certain ways) and maybe even a Caucasus state, depending on what kind of war I'm fleeing from.
Some of those might be better suited for a longer stay than others.
Odds are the USA will be on the wrong side of any major conflict and Canada would also be looking to Europe for support.
The USA is the exact opposite of safe. A record number of people are currently trying to leave or have left (I'm one of those)
I don't think it will help that much. There's already a lot of rich people in Africa. If anything this would bring about gentrification in a lot of the parts.
But that isn't to say it will be a completely bad thing. (The people moving to African countries, not the gentrification). Maybe some parts of the economy will be stimulated.
They flee to Switzerland aka Supereurope. After that you pray to the heavens.
Well, anyone who could flee my country already has, so probably nowhere.
South Africa, because I can.
We'll go to China, of course!
The question implies war in Europe. The reality is that once the enemy breaks though Poland and Czechia (and even there I wouldn't put much credence into the latter), the rest of continental Europe will fold without a war. People will not flee, but gradually adjust to the new overlords. There may be small migration of the intelligentsia, which is in danger from any oppressive regime, but that will be likely in form of orderly emigration, rather than flight.