Nice. A return to sanity.
this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2025
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someone needs to tell the EU to require all devices to be serviceable with screws….
Those gonna get jam packed FULL of dead skin and gunk within days.
Watches, generally speaking, have a twist off back plate for that exact reason. And smart watches tend to add glue because it is more reliable than rubber gaskets for water resistance (and because it means you need to contact Apple for replacement parts...).
Its similar to the issue with screws in general. EVERYONE hates flat head screws. People who don't know that they come in different sizes hates phillips. Everyone LOVES torx...
Until you have something that is exposed to dirt and debris on the regular. And suddenly you are digging the gunk out of those fancy heads by hand while they are still installed. Versus a quick scraping and using the god awful flathead.
Doesn't a little solvent and some gentle brushing usually clear this issue up?
The benefits for simple access through simple mechanisms, for me, is worth this bit of work.
But everyone clearly has different requirements. 🤷♂️
There are lots of watches with screws on the back, like the Casio F91
I have a Garmin Fenix 7s. This watch also has torx screws on the back. I wear it day and night for 3-4 years now, even when working in the garden etc. and the screw heads are completely clean. So I don't think it's an issue.
Everyone hates Japanese Philips screws until they learn there's Japanese Philips screw drivers. Decades of stripped motorcycle screws because the angle is different.
I feels like all these is really non-issue for dailly user, you're not gonna open the stuff up every week, most likely you're gonna need to do it once in a year or two to change some part. If you have any skill repairing stuff, cleaning it up is just a matter of having a toothbrush and some toothpick to clean up the gunk before doing the work, and you will already own a set of driver.
And smart watches tend to add glue because it is more reliable than rubber gaskets for water resistance
Debatable. Some car's waterpump rely on rubber o-ring to seal up the cooling system, and those run at around 12/16psi and in high heat constantly while car is in working condition, and it can last for years before it leak. Rubber o ring also played an important role in sealing International Space Station. It's the quality of the rubber o ring that is important, it can easily pass ipx7 or even ipx8 rating if the casing is properly designed, and lasted longer than the battery would if quality o-ring is used. My guess is glue is often used because it's cheaper, as you can apply it in any shape you wanted, instead of having to manufacture a shape that fit the use case.
The ISS (and most engines) also kind of need to be field/garage maintainable. Having to transport a maneuvering thruster back to JPL every few years is obviously a no go.
But also? O-rings (and many kinds of press fits and gaskets) ARE more "single use" than not. That... almost never happens.
Its similar to those wax rings for toilets. Anyone who has ever had to remove/replace a toilet will tell you: Get the actual wax rings because ANY kind of leakage is just hell. But... anyone who has ever actually had to install/replace a toilet will tell you to spend like 5x as much (so... 20 bucks instead of 4) for one of those rubber+wax rings. Technically that is ALSO single use/attempt only but... you actually get a few tries before you need to replace it and find a new helper. You're going to regret it in 5-10 years when you realize the seal wasn't great and that smell that wouldn't go away is a slow leak of piss and shit gas but... it took you five minutes instead of fifty as you kept having to lift the toilet back up to replace the ring.
I feels like all these is really non-issue for dailly user, you’re not gonna open the stuff up every week, most likely you’re gonna need to do it once in a year or two to change some part. If you have any skill repairing stuff, cleaning it up is just a matter of having a toothbrush and some toothpick to clean up the gunk before doing the work, and you will already own a set of driver.
My issue is that it just doesn't make any sense from an engineering perspective.
Yes, the vast majority of owners will never open their watches up. Hell, they will buy a new smartwatch LONG before they would need to. Like most "right to repair" style topics, we are really talking a very small subset of power users and repair shops.
But what does this get you over the industry/artisan standard? You need one less tool... except now you need a toothpick/brush to properly clean those screw heads. Arguably you always needed one since you SHOULD be deep cleaning your watch before any maintenance, but you technically don't need one to remove a backplate. And while you probably COULD unscrew without cleaning, you are drastically increasing the likelihood of deforming the screw head and/or outright stripping it.
At best it is a sidegrade. But just look at some of the more... reddit-y responses to this. It is marketing influenced design. People think "screws? I can fix that!" and want to Believe in it.
And, generally speaking, I REALLY dislike stuff like this because it inevitably leads to "enshittification" where things get worse for everyone.
True, but it shouldn't be a huge deal to clean them up once every few years.
I've got a Timex Expedition that I've had since high school. That means I bought it some time during the early Triassic. Its stainless steel backplate is held on with four Phillips screws and I have never in many decades had any problems undoing them when I need to replace the battery every six years or so. It remains resolutely waterproof. I know this because it lives outside rather frequently: at the moment I have it stuck to the gauge cluster on one of my motorcycles with Velcro.
I think it depends on screw design. GShock also have screws and they just don't get dirty enough that you couldn't unscrew them.
bring back screws
Yep, torx or allen (around 1mm it's just as good).
ECX?
Love this.
The more I'm hearing about the Pebble Time 2, the more I'm liking it and looking forward to my delivery.
But fuck the 30 day warranty. Stuff sold in the UK is usually 6 years of cover (albeit only 5 for Scotland). 30 days is actually pathetic.
That's a concern for me as well, in Germany every new Product has to come with basically a 2 year warranty. 30 days is nothing.
Some devices are exempt (i.e. smart watches)
30 to 90 days is standard for a defects in workmanship and materials warranty, which is only there to cover something not working right because it came faulty from the factory. It's basically one step up from an "as-is" sale just so you can request a replacement if it's dead on arrival.
It is bullshit and straight up illegal in the EU, but as the watches are shipped straight from the Chinese factory and sold by a US based company, it might technically be allowed? The legalese is very confusing when I tried to figure it out - if a company sells something directly to an EU customer, they are supposed to follow EU laws to a point.
This is sold by the same guy that created Pebble and then sold and killed it screwing the entire community, right? And it's the same guy that later sold messaging app based on breaking e2e encryption that worked for like a week before being killed by Apple? Do I remember this correctly? I think I will pass, even with screws.
Ran out of money, went belly up, and sold the software assets to Fitbit so they could refund all the Kickstarter orders they couldn't fulfill, that guy.
Difference is that this time he is doing the watches with a 5 man team, not a bloated 100+ employee company with investors breathing down their necks, and the software is fully open source. Even released the Pebble 2 Duo hardware designs as a reference for others wanting to make a PebbleOS watch.
Same guy. This time the whole thing is open source though, even the hardware. So that's insurance for what it's worth.
So it's best to wait for some other manufacturer to show up. If no one else is able to setup the manufacturing process it's still up to this one guy to keep making them or sell and kill it again.
It is almost always best to 'wait and see' for most things.
But of course if everyone did that - it would never have taken off in the first place.
That's the issue. It's why I've learned that when I can afford it and I reasonably believe this firm or project should exist, and it has a decent chance not to fall flat, I end up buying in. It's literally upfront investment in the thing. I'm still salty for not backing the Ubuntu Phone back in 2012 or so. I looked at it as another phone compared to what's available on the market and how the price stacks up for the features. That's very much the wrong way to do it. A part of the value it provides is the existence of the project and the labour dedicated to it. In the case of the new Pebble, I'm backing it despite Eric, and because it's fully open source and that's something I want to exist. A fully open alternative in the sea of proprietary wearable crap.
Soldered in battery still...
I’ll change 100 of those batteries before I do another Apple Watch battery or lcd
This is not the final design, it might gain a connector in the final. It might not. But even if it doesn't, splicing the wires shouldn't be too difficult for most who'd dare open their watch. I'm pretty confident I can do it.
True. Although I'd still find a way to mess it up somehow.
I’ve repaired and tinkered with many phones and computers, I thought I’d be able to change the battery in my third gen iPod nano… But I completely messed it up because of the soldering. It ain’t easy :(
The nanos are pretty nasty to work on in general
That's me, every time. 'It's foolproof', yeah, I'm about 200 times worse than any fool, sorry.
At this size battery connectors add way too much bulk.
I mean you see ribbon connector right there for the daughterboard, but yeah, maybe it's too bulky for the current case design.
How much current does that thin ribbon cable carry? Battery connectors need to be more robust.
Should still be able to carry 1 amp, shouldn't it?
A smart watch doesn't require very much current. A ribbon cable should be more than sufficient for a device that can last days on a 185mAh battery. Especially since a ribbon cable is already delivering most of the power to the device's main board.
But I agree that a soldered on battery isn't a big deal.
What happened to screws? Why is everything frikin glued together???
Cheaper manufacturing costs with the added "benefit" of making it hard to repair so users buy another one if it breaks