this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com 271 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Fun (random shit I heard on the internet): the enshittification of journals mostly started with Pergamon Press which was founded by Ghislaine Maxwell's father.

[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 131 points 23 hours ago (2 children)
[–] zqwzzle@lemmy.ca 71 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

Are we sure that current events aren’t just one long behind the bastards episode?

[–] Unforeseen@sh.itjust.works 59 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

It's bastards all the way down

[–] Insekticus@aussie.zone 20 points 22 hours ago

Bastards... what a bunch of bastards.

[–] Mac@mander.xyz 13 points 13 hours ago

ACAB but not ABAC

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 23 hours ago

Behind the bastard is just another bastard standing in line

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[–] cRazi_man@europe.pub 8 points 21 hours ago

Fantastic episode

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

If you didn't know this, it'd be weird how many academics are in the Epstein files. Once you do know it, it's obvious.

Oh, and Robert Maxwell was legitimately a badass in WW2. Everything terrible about him starts after that.

[–] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago

People that do well in wartime and during peacetime are different type of people.

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 4 hours ago

Sometimes I feel like everything shit in the world can be traced back to like a dozen people and their parents and grandparents.

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[–] BertramDitore@lemmy.zip 199 points 1 day ago (8 children)

In grad school I remember being encouraged to submit a paper to a journal that would have charged me a few hundred dollars to put it in for peer review, and I told my advisor no, I needed to buy groceries, I would not throw my money away for an extra line on my CV. He got all flustered and it was a great example of why higher education is so fucked. My advisor, who ostensibly understood my background and means, could not understand how such a relatively small fee would be so prohibitive. He was incapable of understanding that I was essentially unemployed while enrolled as his grad student, and every dollar of funding went to bare essentials so I could continue breathing. He had access to discretionary funds for this exact kind of issue (I found out later), and didn’t think to offer.

Without independent wealth and deep personal connections it’s incredibly difficult to succeed in academia, regardless of the quality of your research.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 51 points 1 day ago

I got lucky in that my publication was through a journal that doesn't charge money for access or submissions. It's part of our professional organization and our annual membership fees cover the journal's expenses.

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 28 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)

Without independent wealth and deep personal connections it’s incredibly difficult to succeed in academia, regardless of the quality of your research.

Always has been, ~~why do you think he's called SIR Isaac Newton?~~

EDIT : Turns out his knighthood was afterwards, but he did have connections. There are several examples of science being the domain of already rich people.

[–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 11 points 21 hours ago (6 children)
  • Neils Bohr, from a Jewish/Danish banking family.
  • James Clark Maxwell inherited land and wealth in Scotland.
  • Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz… look at the size of the wig on the man!
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[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 8 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Also, Newton was not born with the connection, he made them in Grantham. He had a very strained relationship with his mother and step father and was raised by his grandmother.

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[–] oppy1984@lemdro.id 19 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Really needs to be a wikipedia style service for academic papers.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 11 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

In grad school your institution should be paying for fees like that. If the school itself isn't paying, then doesn't the supervisor have a grant they can file it under?

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[–] Jason2357@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Uuhh, beyond the fucked up publishing system, your advisor was a self destructive dick. It was his job to pay that. His lab and career benefit and hes the one that gets funding for research operations.

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[–] zd9@lemmy.world 75 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

The scientific journal industrial complex is one of the highest profit margins in the world. It's consistently at like 30-60% pure profit. Obviously not all journals are the same, some are reasonable, but some are insane. LOOKING AT YOU ELSEVIER

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[–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 49 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

“Clearly something you want me to do because you keep on paying, lol.”

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 18 points 20 hours ago

The subscription service/pay-to-play being everywhere has to stop eventually, right?

Like, eventually enough consumers will realize that they are bent over the barrel by their services.

I was darkly joking that Microsoft is like an abuser in another post yesterday, but the more I thought about it, the more the metaphor stuck. They take and take, make decisions on your behalf, cut you off from outsiders and make it increasingly difficult to escape the longer you let them get away with it. And that's not Microsoft's fault...that's capitalism, baby!

[–] A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 46 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

In my univerity, they just told me how to pirate articles, straigt up, as if it was just normal and legal, very based but it was surprising.

Nobody cares anymore about leech capitalism, almost nobody defends this companies and i'm so so happy it is that way.

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[–] ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 34 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

IHMO: All science should be freely accessible, free as in freedom and price.

The more eyes can actually see something and find flaws, the better. There is no such thing as institutional credibility. Everyone makes mistakes and it takes everyone to find them, even more so the more complex something is. Leech publishers are not only problematic because they prohibit access, but also because they make real science considerably harder.

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[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 28 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

I'll just start my own journal with blackjack and hookers.

[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 12 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Remember that 80s magazine OMNI?
Science, tech, sci-fi, Mensa-caliber games... by the very same Bob Guccione who published Penthouse!

Every issue had an in-depth interview with a prominent and interesting scientist, figures like Alan Guth or Luc Montagnier or Morris Berman.
One issue was a little more off-beat, the interview was with an anthropologist, whose student life and career went like this:

Attending the University Of Montana in Missoula, this student loved drinking every day, so he asked the question - "What's a relatively easy major with little math, that will interfere the least with my drinking?" - and landed on Anthropology.

After graduation, the next question became - "What will I do my thesis about?" - a friend gave him the vague advice to do it on something he knew or was passionate about, and like a "eureka" moment, it hit him: "I'm gonna research drinking culture, bars!"

And so, he became one of the rarefied few for whom drinking on the job was basically a requirement!

[–] GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world 6 points 11 hours ago

Omni! I remember being a teenager, and eagerly getting my subscription copy every month in the mail. In fact, i think i still have them in a box in the garage.

I thought Omni was awesome, and that they did a good job of trying to make science more accessible to people. I just wish that they had succeeded.

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[–] JokeDeity@sh.itjust.works 23 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

I honestly don't understand this. It's not that expensive to just host a website where you publish your research to instead of using these scheisters.

[–] BertramDitore@lemmy.zip 44 points 23 hours ago

It’s a feedback loop. In order to raise your academic profile and potentially get a job, you need a solid CV full of peer reviewed publications. In order to get published in the first place, you often need money and institutional backing.

If you circumvent that cycle by self-publishing (a solidly logical idea btw), then you’ll have an even harder job getting people to take you seriously and will alienate yourself from “mainstream” academia. It’s messed up. Some open access journals have tried to solve this, with some success, but it’s a systemic problem.

[–] sassymov@piefed.blahaj.zone 11 points 23 hours ago

Well yes but you also need to hassle high profile researchers to give their opinion before you host research, and that can get really expens... wait, no, they do it for free as well.

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 6 points 21 hours ago

20 years ago we relied on printed books and libraries. I've noticed in real time this last decade [nearly] every paper gaining a PDF download button on some website.

[–] minorkeys@lemmy.world 21 points 10 hours ago

They control the means of distribution and accreditation of science publishing. Business should not be trusted to control anything.

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

You missed the part where like half the time they don’t actually do the peer review part

[–] hayvan@feddit.nl 13 points 8 hours ago

Peer review is often done by other PhD candidates for free.

[–] bananabenana@lemmy.world 17 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

This comic is partially right. If you pay, you get open access, so no cost for readers. If you go old-school you don't pay and the article is paywalled. Terrible system either way, but open access is necessary nowadays, as otherwise you will get cited less

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[–] Matriks404@lemmy.world 17 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Why not create open-source online "scientific jorunal" with service provided by donations then? Am I missing something?

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (6 children)

This idea has been around over 20 years. It dies every time because major lab PIs, usually in US, HATE the idea of not being able to gatekeep research publications in journals of "high impact". This impacts how institutions are assessed, because, God forbid people actually have to read the papers. This feeds back to Editors, so the number one factor that influences Editors now is zip code.

If we went to a simple repository archive, with transparent peer review, then no one could imply their research is more important because of where it was published. We would let citations determine impact. Science publishing has always pushed the idea that if Einstein drove a Honda, everyone who drives a Honda is a genius.

Meanhile, The Lancet (JIF 105) took 12 years to retract a paper linking autism to vaccines, when it was clearly fraudulent from day one. Nature, Science, CELL, just stopped retractions, at best, they have "statements of Editorial Concern". This high JIF model is why Alzheimers research has stalled behind a flawed hypothesis only reinforced by fraudulent work not retracted for 25 years. Some people, like the President of Stanford, rose to the top tier on fraud and journal gatekeeping.

2020 saw the world arguing over ivermectin based off a paper "reviewed" overnight, with the journal Editor as an author. The journal 5 years later refuses to prove the paper was peer reviewed at all. 3,400 citations.

Then we have predatory journals that will publish literally anything for page charges. Examples:

Get me off your fucking mailing list.

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and

Chicken, chicken chicken chicken, Chicken? chicken. (Cited 35 times)

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Elsevier has a 3 billion dollar income, while most of its research is publicly funded. You are paying for the research, then paying again to access the results of the research that you already paid for. The executives can hang.

[–] Soapbox@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 hours ago

You can thank Ghislaine Maxwell's dad for that shit.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 hour ago

"and for the hours of peer review, we pay nothing."

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 9 points 23 hours ago

Behind you, an executive encourages your participation in academia. *plap* *plap* *plap* *plap* get published get published get published

[–] FundMECFS@anarchist.nexus 9 points 5 hours ago

more Open Access non-profit journals please

[–] PixelPilgrim@lemmings.world 8 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

Do these researches even get paid for publishing their work

[–] 87Six@lemmy.zip 9 points 19 hours ago

Yea and idk about other parts of the world, but in Romania, the publishing fee is paid in full by the university if the researcher is part of a doctorate or masters programme... So it's just science institutions trading money between each other here...

[–] InputZero@lemmy.world 8 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

In a roundabout way, yes a researcher does get paid for their publications but not directly. Universities exist on their reputation and their reputation is determined, in part, from the publications their researchers make. So a researcher who publishes a lot of high quality publications has a better chance of being offered a position at an institution with a good reputation, which can offer to pay them more.

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