this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2025
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[–] Sibshops@lemmy.myserv.one 65 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Honestly I would. Like I wouldn't hesitate to kill patient zero of a world ending disease.

[–] Zwiebel@feddit.org 60 points 1 week ago (3 children)

But then it isn't a world ending desease, you just killed somebody

[–] Steve@startrek.website 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The use of a time machine is implied in these situations

[–] bampop@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

Kill the person who invented the trolley problem. It's the only way to be sure

[–] ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 week ago

If you killed patient 0, then it wasn't a world ending disease either.

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[–] blahblahblah@lemmy.zip 38 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Do you know any of the people involved?

[–] edinbruh@feddit.it 93 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If you are number 32 the chance is 50/50

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

How do you know blahblahblah only knows one person? Are you that one person?

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[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

2^32^ is roughly four billion. We'll need one or two more doublings to get every last person alive on the tracks.

This introduces a new wrinkle in the experiment: all the switch operators are also tied to the track. Somewhere.

[–] BanMe@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Just a little more and every single particle in the universe will be on the tracks, and what the fuck would happen if every particle in the universe was split in twain? Let's assume it radiated outward from the center of the universe at the speed of light...

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[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

As long as everyone doubles there will be no deaths.

[–] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago

Why do I get the feeling this kind of logic is used by modern day economists to justify inflation?

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But I don't know if I trust literally infinite people. It might be better to kill one. Because unless you believe all humans are 100% willing to never kill someone then you're risking a number of deaths larger than 1. (Potentially much larger.)

[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 week ago (3 children)

No need to trust infinite people. You just need to get past 33 forks before you run out of people to operate the switch or to be tied to the tracks.

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Sounds like what we have been doing with the environment.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 15 points 1 week ago

You didn't kill that person, the person who invented the problem did.

Philosophy is easy.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

How fast is the train going can I make it to the person who's tied down and lay with them

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Maybe there is nobody tied up after the third split, nobody explicitly stated it continues!

[–] Lucky_777@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

You'll eventually have to include alien life. What a great way to see if aliens exist!

This is also Thanos wet dream come true. Keep racking up the "pass"!

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

After person 33 there won't be any more humans to tie to the rails

Edit: which was pointed more subtly by OP in the title

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[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Everyone just doubles it and we're good

[–] Xenny@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's kind of how it feels like living in the modern age to be honest. We're just doubling it until somebody decides to pull the lever.

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[–] VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'd get it done and over with. I would resent myself forever, and accept any punishment for it, but it's better than waiting to see if someone wants to decide to kill off half the world later on. Would be even easier if I could take the first persons spot on the tracks so there only has to be one messed up person rather than two.

[–] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

In recognition of your heroic sacrifice, I volunteer to pull the switch to send the train to run over you.

[–] Sibbo@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 week ago

What happens if you are both to be killed and must flip the switch?

[–] MTK@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Schrödingers murder: You are both a murder and not a murder. You are not a murderer as you did not choose to kill a person, but as this can not continue forever you are also a murderer since it is quite certain that eventually someone will choose murder.

[–] Inucune@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Can you murder through innaction? By not pulling the lever, you haven't changed the system.

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[–] xxd@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 week ago (9 children)

I think you should pull the lever, even if this ended after the entire human population was on the track and the experiment doesn't go on infinitely. Hear me out:

When a person pulls the lever with a chance of 50% and in one case they kill 2 people and in the other case 0, the kind of average outcome is 0.5 * 2 + (1 - 0.5) * 0 = 1. Now let's consider the last person in the chain of decision-makers. They would have 2^33 people on the tracks, or about the entire human population. To make the expected outcome be exactly one person, they'd have to pull the lever with likelihood x so that x * 2^33 + (1 - x) * 0 = 1 which would lead to x = 1/2^33 or about x≈0.0000000001. So only if the last person directs the train towards the people with less than this tiny chance, the expected outcome is smaller than 1. This chance is incredibly small, and far far smaller than I'd guess the actual percentage is. Think of the percentage of people that are psychopaths, or mass murderers, or maybe even just clumsy. If you evaluate the percentage as someone flipping that switch as anything above 1/2^33, you should therefore flip the switch yourself. You can guarantee that the outcome is 'only' one death, whereas the average outcome of just the last person likely exceeds 1 by a huge amount.

I really wanted to calculate the percentage so that the expected outcome is 1 even if every person in the chain flips the switch with that chance, but wolfram alphas character limit let me down :(

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 week ago

The trolley problem thought experiment does a whole lot of work to define personal responsibility. IRL it's difficult to be the guy who does the evil thing for a good outcome, and easy to kick the can to the next guy, even while making it worse.

[–] krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 week ago

The optimal solution to the trolley problem is always the one that makes the least sense because the more chaos injected into any system the less predictable the results will be.

So I pull it, kill the other person at the second lever, and drag throw the person from the first set of tracks to the place where the train switches tracks. wrench the lever free from the top part and place it on the tracks where the train would switch too.

Fucked if I know what the outcome is.

[–] thatradomguy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is this some kind of IPv6 joke that's gone over my head?

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 points 1 week ago

"double it and give it to the next person" was sort of a trend with street interview type content. Like "Do you want a cookie or double it and give it to the next person." Then the second would be "Do you want two cookies or double it and give it to the next person?" Eventually someone takes the cookies. It wasn't cookies necessarily, sometimes money, sometimes other trinkets, whatever.

[–] Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

I wouldn’t. The likeliness of the next person choosing to kill even more people decreases fast with each iteration. And, I believe we can find 30 people who aren’t willing to become mass murderers pretty easily, even if they are selected randomly

[–] this@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I would, because the second track potentially scales to infinity, and pulling the lever is the only sure way to minimize the death and suffering.

Also, if everyone avoids pulling the lever, you technically have an infinite amount of people who will die and an infinite amount of guilty consciences, also an infinite amount of people blaming the last guy for forcing the decision on them, like the most messed up version of the infinity hotel.

Also, the infinity of people who die is also significantly larger and less quantifiable than the number of leaver guys.

[–] kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

But once you get to round ~~33~~ 34, everyone on earth is tied to the track, so there's no one to pull the lever. That means that the trolley safely passes by, giving everyone ample time to free themselves. Eventually, the trolley stops due to friction with the track and air, plus brakes if it's using them, and then we all stop getting tied to tracks.

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[–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

You try to save them all by tackling the guy on the second track. The train is 400m from the wye in the track but 375m from the point the second person can decide to flip the switch. You are 270m from the second person. The train travels at a steady 15m/s. You start running at an acceleration of 0.5m/s/s. Can you tackle the second person to prevent them from flipping the switch? Assume flipping the switch means killing the poor tied up folks.

I dunno. I just made up numbers though.

[–] Smokeless7048@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I assume if they DON'T flip it, it gets passed yo the next guy with 4 people tied to the track.

33junctions down the road, and it's the population of the earth tied down.

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[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

at some point you run of people to man the switch and prevent the trolley from hitting the people?

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[–] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I woukd kill the poor guy without hesitation. I am not letting that shit get out of hand.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

How far down the line before you wouldn't be able to pull the trigger? Everyone here assumes we're at the start of the line, rather than just getting picked up midway through. Not sure where I'd be able to call that myself though....

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[–] marcos@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

With everybody tied up before the 34th track, who exactly is there to push the lever?

[–] NichEherVielleicht@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)
  1. Winnie the Pooh.
  2. Alice.
  3. Thanos.
  4. The Dude.
  5. Waldo.
  6. Marry Poppins.
  7. Rudolph the red nose reindeer.
  8. Margaret Thatcher.
  9. Douglas Adams.
  10. Petunia pot (all dead!)
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