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Then there's all the expenses you didn't know about before you bought the house. If you don't have at least some DIY skills, you get to pay people a lot of money to fix things for you.
...BTW, the county just did a reassessment on your property and your property taxes have now doubled. In exchange, you get nothing. Congratulations.
Yup. Oops, you need a new roof and a water heater, that will be $34,000.
Hey, I just did these things! Water heater i was ripped off, which cost me $2600, and the roof i actually thought was a good deal at 17k. Not fun but the roof made me happy. The water heater actually destroyed my basement by leaking out...
I'm guilty of ignoring my water heaters. Had my backup start to leak and it cost $1500 to replace. So I immediately bought a new anode rod for my primary tank. Drained/flushed it and replaced the old rod which was completely gone. It was an easy task but you will need a cheap impact wrench, 1 1/16" socket and chain link anode rod to make it easy.
It's something you need to do every couple of years. But I never do it.
I wouldn't say you get nothing from paying property taxes.
That's true but when they double over 10 years and four schools in the area shut down due to "lack of enrollment"? Streets sure aren't any better and my neighbor who works for the city has only had COL raises for the same past decade?
c'mon... something is going on.
Whats going on is decades of mismanagement of property taxes and city zoning. People fight tooth and nail to keep their property taxes low, and eventually the city has to do a big increase because they failed to increase incrementally. The bigger issue is how poorly we zone and design most north american cities.
The average car dependant suburb costs more to maintain than it generates in tax revenue. A denser area like mixed use neighbourhoods and "missing middle" housing fares far better and generates enough that it often ends up subsidizing the rest of the city, the same is usually true for denser downtowns. That trend is dying off as those denser areas demolish tax revenue generating businesses and homes to pave parking lots that don't generate taxes to park cars from the suburbs that don't generate enough taxes.
You can't afford a home because for decades suburbs were given a massive tax break while denser downtowns (guess where the poors have to rent and ultimately fund the property taxes) have to subsidize car dependant expensive to maintain subdivisions (which is usually for middle class or wealthier people, especially when built new). Add in some racial demographics and we've basically engineered every city to have secret tax cuts for anyone rich enough to get into the suburbs.
The best part is, many cities are keeping the cycle going because the only way they are paying for maintaince of an old subdivision is by using the devleopment taxes and fees from a new subdivision. This is not sustainable and ultimately equates to kicking the can down the road to let a future generation figure it out (which is literally as simple as building cities densely again, as they had been built for 100s of years).
This hasn't even touched yet on the urban sprawl, energy ineffeciency, and secondary effects of car dependancy that have all spawned from "the american dream" of suburbia. We seriously need to reconsider how we zone, build, and get around our urban spaces.
I always find this to be such a poor argument.
Yes unexpected maintenance can sometimes be a huge problem, especially in the first couple of years, but after that you can tap into home equity and repair say a roof. Everything else while expensive is still cheaper than renting. Using the OP's example 1k vs 500, I can assure you you will never have consistent 500 repairs per month.
As for the taxes the people in my city nearly went ballistic when the city increased the rate by 5%. At the end of the year it costed me $200. Per month that's about $16. I've never lived in any apartment anywhere where rent didn't increase by at least $50 per month each year. Even if someone had a home twice as valuable that's still a very small monthly cost.
Additional once you get past the first 3ish years rent prices have greatly outpaced your mortgage and you will be saving a lot of money compared to of you were renting.
I'd like to wrap up with a question. If owning a home was such a sink of resources why do people become landlords?
I tell my soon-to-leave-the-nest kids:
Rent is the most you will pay every month. The mortgage is the least you will pay every month.
I'm loving them being here as full grown adults and enjoy my time with them and with our particular house they are seeing that lesson play out in real time. Some big expenses and I am the DIY dude. I don't fuck with (big) electric or gas though, that shit can really backfire.
Rent vs mortgage - gotta put a caveat on that one.
Renting = landlord gets all the money but has to maintain the property.
Mortgage - bank gets all the money and you get a partial refund if you sell. You pay for the upkeep. A mortgage is not really an "investment", you usually lose money on the deal if you live there. It's cheap rent from the bank.
It basic math to see which one is better long term. Usually the mortgage wins because of of the partial return. However if you can't do the upkeep yourself, renting is often a better financial decision.
There have been times when renting was the smarter financial decision. Like the housing bubble in 2003-2007. You could rent places for 1/2 what it would cost to buy them per month.
Then there’s all the expenses you didn’t know about before you bought the house.
The cost of owning is significantly less than renting over the life of the unit. Repairs happen, but most of the time they aren't time critical, so you can budget out the repairs over months.
Unless the house was old when you bought it, you aren't going out of pocket on any big purchases inside the first years of ownership.
…BTW, the county just did a reassessment on your property and your property taxes have now doubled
Idk where you live, but most states limit the rate at which an acessor can raise your housing price. In Texas, the cap is 10%. So your property taxes can rise, but the won't double overnight.
You can also contest the increase. Harris has been fairly receptive to a simple "my neighbor's house sold for X so my house should be worth about X, not X+20%"
I can't believe someone watermarked their worthless reply to a post that said the same thing more subtly and smartly.
And while we're ranting about this, can we throw PMI and whomever came up with it on the bonfire where they belong?
Your telling me that I need to pay for you to have insurance in case I default while your also charging me interest who's very purpose is to offset risk? Why am I paying to offset your risk FUCKING TWICE AND HOW IS THIS FUCKING LEGAL.
Shit infuriates me. I want all the bankers to get William Wallace on live TV, recorded and played back once a year during a mandatory viewing window so that we never, ever, forget.
Its legal because value comes from ownership, not from doing things.
And if that sounds insane; you're a fucking commie.
Even just renting an apartment is full of bullshit.
"The apartment is $1300 a month."
"Perfect, I make $2000 a month."
"No. You're gonna need to make $3900 a month before we will rent to you."
I live in the Toronto area and rent here is up to like $2600 for a 2 bedroom. Why haven’t we burned shit down? Why do we take this??
Im no leader but I’ll gladly build some gallows and die for my kid’s generation. Im also a vegetarian, but I’m willing to roast and take a bite of the billionaire just to show my conviction. I think we should actually literally do it with one to prove a point
Yeah, the 3x salary requirements are insane when housing accounts for almost 50% of people's take home pay in most places.
They don't actually need regular payments for 10-30 years. They need you deposit that down payment cash ASAP so they can lease it to billionaires and crypto exchanges.
The deposit is to cover expenses/losses that arise out of defaults. Housing loans have been lile this forever. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Where y'all finding houses for 500/month with a 25k downpayment?
Seems cheap af. If you only did a 25k downpayment the mortgage would certainly be more expensive than rent where I'm at.
The first time I applied for a loan, I didn't have a credit card yet. And they were like:
How can we know you're responsible with money?
Because I haven't needed credit in the past and I'm still alive, idk? Having enough liquidity to not need credit would seem to suggest I'm good with money.
But maybe your parents are paying for everything
Ok? How does using a credit card change that?
They are NOT looking to see if you are responsible with money. They are looking to see if they can make money off of you, so they want you to be a heavy credit user. Before I bought my house I made sure to take out two credit cards and just buy random shit on them for a few months because that boosts my credit score drastically which then made it easy to get the loan. Banks HATE people with limited debt because it means you are not a loyal customer that they could make money off of. Yes, it makes no sense but that's just how the economy works. Even if you don't have any reason to buy things on credit, you still should. Even if you are very financially responsible, you should always have "stupid debt," by that I mean debt for the sake of debt, because banks love that shit and it'll help you out if you ever actually do need a loan for something.
I went from an apartment that cost ~$1250/mo. To a mortgage that costs ~$4300/mo. Just got the "privilege" of owning a home (and paying for all repairs myself).
I can only afford this because of the people I'm sharing that cost with. We're all on the deed, and we all have a stake, and claim to, the house. Four of us.
My payment didn't really change.
The only way we could get to the point of a down payment is that one of the four of us has been saving for something like this since they were in highschool. Because of their effort, we had enough for a down payment.
And I'm lucky to be in this position.
What a fucking crock of shit.
Despite all of this, I'm hoping the market takes a dive so the rest of you can do the same at a much more affordable rate. I've already spent the money and I'll be spending years paying it off. I didn't buy a house up objectively save money, I bought a house for stability. I never want to move ever again. There are good reasons for that which I won't get into. I promise that I will have ZERO issues if you all get a better deal than I did. I hope you do, and I hope the housing market, specifically the rental/flipping/"income property" markets crash, hard.
In the same way, I've paid off my school debt, I'm in favor of school debt forgiveness. I also enjoy pretty good health, I'm in favor of universal healthcare. I've never caused, not been the victim of a fire, I'm in favor of fire departments.
I could go on.
Good luck everyone.
Going to be wild when people just give up on society and just start eating the ruling and ownership class. I tried warning these assholes if they didn’t give something. Then they would doom their existence. And now you have more people radicalizing everyday because they are being put on the streets.
The corrosive corollary to ever-rising real estate valuations is that there is no incentive to keep buildings like condos nice or neighborhoods clean, someone will buy at the inflated price anyway since they all are inflated.
So basically I feel in Canada we live in a system that pulls valuation out of thin air, produces nothing, incentivizes no one, yet allows everything.
Same shit happening in Scotland. Knobheads makin bids above asking price on slum complexes in the city like it's fooken millionaire row. Last landlord I had chucked a new tenant out and returned her deposit for complaining about the broken shower basin cos he cannae be arsed. Not exaggerating.
good news, theyre counting rent and utilities payment as a way to build credit now! link
Well shoot. Why wasn’t this the case from the start? I’ve only ever had troubles with payments a few times in the 10 years I’ve been renting. Good thing none of that counts for anything and the clock is just now starting.
To be the devil's advocate here. Rental payments vs mortgage payments is not an accurate comparison of the true financial burdens.
With many rentals some if not all utilities are included in the price of rent, whereas homeowners must pay the full cost of utilities. There is also the additional cost of home insurance and property taxes. Most rentals have the majority of their maintaince covered whereas the homeowner is responsible for lawn cutting, gutter cleanings etc. The cost of repairs and maintaince is not negligible. While renting if the heat quits or an appliance breaks, the landlord is supposed to cover the cost but owning means you must take that full cost.
In the posted example, having double the mortage payment in rent payment is probably adequate to cover the additonal costs but the comparison of renting vs owning is not black and white. Several financial managers have even studied that depending on your needs and income, you can actually be getting ahead financially by renting if you don't actually need the full benefits of owning and are able to maintain a store of wealth through other investments. This is especially true if you are in a rent controlled unit.
My issue wasn't getting pre-approved, it was being able to actually afford the mortgage amount I was pre-approved for. A lot of these companies don't give a damn if you can actually afford the mortgages they offer, because they know you'll either figure it out or go homeless trying.
We probably live in different countries, but where I live it's more like you can't get pre-approved for anything unless you either have a large amount of money saved up, or your salary is high enough that it's far beyond what you would reasonably need to get paid to afford the mortgage.
Suppose I was the bank...
Guy1) Hey bank I want to sell my house for $1,000,000.00. Here is the deed, I owe $999,999.00 bank2.
Bank1) OK I'll take the house, here is $1.00 and $999,999.00 for bank2. Did you fuck up the house or burn it down to the point I can't sell it?
Guy1) yup to the ground I burnt it all.
Assessor) I'll charge Bank 1 $300 to go asses the price. Yeah currently this property can be sold for $300,546.00.
Bank 1) OK Guy1, you owe Bank2 $699,454.00 but here's your $1.00.
Guy1) your honor I need to file for chapter 11. I have no money
Guy2) Bank 1, I would like to buy this property.
Bank1) Sure that'll be $1,000,000.00.
I saved up a big (to me) chunk a few years ago, thought I was there. Expected the red carpet to roll out. Nooooope. There were people buying houses for $100k more than the asking price, sight unseen, within a week or two of the house being listed. My little $40k deposit was adorable, in comparison. I had no chance. Then Covid, life, etc...
Yeeeeah, I was too adult in 2008 to go "you know the real problem? We check too hard for solvency when giving out mortgages".
Not that I have a silver bullet for solving a housing crisis. There probably isn't one. You need a lot more public housing as a percentage of the total pool, that much I can tell. How you fix a job market where nobody holds the same position for more than a handful of years is beyond me. You probably need to make it much more expensive to own a house without living in it or renting it out. You definitely want to make it much more expensive for corporations to own housing.
Guessing that's harder to fit in a pithy, viral tweet, though.
Come back with some inheritance and then we will talk.
I hate to break it to you, but mortgage payments are not cheaper then rent anymore. Obviously depends on your mortgage and money down and all that, but if you expect to pay half as much for mortgage payments as you did for rent, you're going to have a very bad time.
Surely, this depends a lot on what market you’re in. If you’re in a very expensive area and need to take a big loan with a high fixed rate, I can see that being the case but renting the equivalent place would probably be extremely expensive too.
You can't even get an apartment here without making a ton of money. Cheapest studio apartment here is $1,500 a month. I have to prove i make $4,500 a month just to barely qualify, which i don't. Then they charge you so much for application fees, and then utilities they overcharge for, it's all a scam.
How fucking old is this? Unless it's a real shithole, mortgages have not been this cheap since Truss fucked up the economy