I've said it before, but one reason I didn't pursue a PhD is that there appeared to be an element of hazing in the entire thing.

Several of the PhD students I knew were languishing for years trying to get their thesis together, in what can only be described as poverty.

Meanwhile, half of the professors were miserable, and if they made good money, it was because they were very focused on how to make money. The happiest postgrad I knew was a senior lecturer who had given up on becoming a professor.

The best you can hope for is that your personal area of interest happens to have a lot of funding.

Yet these people almost universally seemed to think, "Well, that's just how it is. The nice thing is that if you can get an academic position, it sucks less than being a PhD student."

I find it hard to believe that someone who entered a PhD program wasn't given a heads up immediately about the competition for professor positions.

This is why I dropped the dream of being a French professor. By the end of my first year I realized there were only 2 or 3 on my campus and I'd have to work with them for many years and still not score a job.

Funny story about my first professor: When I would speak French in class the girls would all giggle. WTF?! One night I got invited to an all-girl study group at the dorm next door.

"OK, why do you all giggle when I speak French?"

They got real quiet, looked around at each other. Finally one girl pipes up.

"We're sorry, it's just that your accent is so much better than the professor's, it's embarrassing for him."

And that's the man I would have had to work with for years. :( (BTW, he spoke 5 other languages and his grammar and vocabulary were unmatched. He just couldn't speak worth a shit.)

It’s a tough dilemma. Takes a PHD to understand the tenure track.

I felt that in the bone. Postdoc life is one foot getting ready to move and the other foot dreading every decision that led to the thought "A PhD is a good idea"

It was a good idea, but holy shit is it all sorts of miserable.

When I was in college I got a science-related scholarship and as part of it they literally made us all chant together that we would go on to get a PhD.

Thankfully that was obvious enough cult behavior for me to tap out and take my career in a different direction.

I dunno... getting a PhD just teaches you how to do research. If you want to get a faculty position, there's a whole other set of skills on top of that; in the US for CS at larger universities it's mostly about getting funding and becoming "respected" in your field. But you have to tell people that you want to learn those additional skills. That's the part that's hard to know about beforehand.

Interestingly enough, I only got my PhD because the job market sucked after Bush's recession and I was promised 5 years of funding. I did get some great data analytic skills out of it, but academic positions are indeed far and few between.

One of the main factors after my graduation a few years ago was that professors just refused to retire, leaving very few faculty positions open; that changed slightly right after my kid was born but by that point I was and am ok with an adjunct part time and homemaker full time situation.

Now it'll mostly be a lack of funding, though, unless I leave the US. Meh.

This is a computer sci PhD. They rarely even finish their degrees and most bugger off directly to industry if they do. Couldn't have picked a better degree of you want to be a professor.

TBH if you attend 5 years at uni and don't catch on how few professors there are to literally everyone else at the university perhaps your reasoning skills are not that great.

I mean I did 5 years with a master in thermodynamics (physical chemistry) and my section had 20 offices. Three had a professor in them.

Top sciencetists are is like top athlets. The same drive, dedication and forsaking other things to be best.

I thought one of the fundamental principles of a PhD was that you were no longer expected to have information spoon-fed to you. Dude failed two different tests at the same time.

As a CS grad I can confidently say: No! They are absolutely worth your time.

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With so many things going on in life outside of work and academics, there is only so much you could research and pay attention to to fully know what you could get into. Only practical experience will tell you if it's worth it. As they say, experience is the best teacher. And even then, don't regret and blame yourself. You made the decision based on what was the best available information at the time. I tell this to any people who tend to be anxious about decisions.

You never "do your own research". You trust the experts and listen to them.

I have never met a PhD student who didn't realise this before starting. You'd think someone who qualifies for grad school has better critical reasoning skills than this.

Where I live this is always mentioned. There are also many resources that list what jobs have too many people or not enough people. These are often linked to on the websites of schools right next to the degrees they offer. I remember being happy because the degree I went for had a gold star next to it telling me this is would lead to good job opportunities and a high pay. Also, the jobs with not enough people often have cheap or even free courses that are subsidized by my government. There was a big need for (well paid) underwater welders for example, and the full courses were completely free.

God I love socialism.

I still got my pizza hut delivered the last time I tried. but that was several years ago. maybe they stop delivering.

I'd love to go back to school full time... But the only way that could ever happen is if I somehow get enough money so that I never have to work again