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Came here for this comment 😄
Well... As they point out in the World movies the creatures were never dinosaurs. They were generic chimeras that looked like dinosaurs.
I never understood the whole "They're making a weapon" plotline though. Unless the weapon makers are either nihilists or libertarians. Oh!
Edit: caveat, I've only seen one of the world movies and then a trailer for one of the others.
I read somewhere that if we could bring back a dinosaur, it wouldn’t survive long, because of the oxygen concentration in our atmosphere. Is it true?
I think that has a lot of variables. Crocodiles were on earth around 250 million years ago, the t rex around 68 million years ago. Crocodiles still breath our atmosphere.
That doesn't mean other animals didn't have different breathing parameters though.
Crocodiles may have also adapted over time to deal with the changes in our atmosphere, while the dino DNA would not have gone through those changes. They could handwave that problem by saying they combined it with some other DNA or modified it themselves (better hemoglobin?)
Was curious so I tried to find historical Oxygen levels by century (didn't find that). With the current oxygen level being around 20.9% and decreasing to effectively 17% around a mile in altitude, (say Denver) we adapt to 4% oxygen level without death. So if dinosaurs are similar in breathing to humans, I'd say with no scientific backing beyond just speculation, they should be fine.
if dinosaurs are similar in breathing to humans
Current living dinosaurs are much more efficient at extracting oxygen from air than practically anything else in the planet.
Birds've got a unidirectional respiratory system that ensures oxygenated air is constantly flowing through their lungs (unlike, for instance, us mammals, who must empty our lungs of spent air before we can fill them again), and a system of air sacs to keep the air constantly flowing.
While fossil records of the earliest dinosaurs show no evidence of air sacs, later ones do, suggesting that bird-like respiratory systems evolved multiple times in parallel in different branches.
Sauropods in particular might have had even more complex air sac systems than modern birds, which could explain how they managed to grow so large (i.e., they were full of air, and might have been even more efficient when it comes to breathing, though their long necks might have offset the balance in the opposite direction).
Dinosaurs would have been perfectly fine with current oxygen levels.
Didn't know that, thanks for the cool information. Although you long neck comment just makes me think of this now
Bird skeletons (or simply plucked birds) are seriously disturbing.
It's incredible how much work feathers do when it comes to bird appearance.
Owls are cute and fluffy. Plucked owls are horrific alien nightmares from the outer dimensions.
Makes one wonder.
So now for the tough question, how many hours do I need to cook that bird in the oven for on Thanksgiving? Is it like a wake up at Tuesday ordeal? Haha
I may have heard a similar thing on a video that compared an elephant sized mouse with a mouse sized elephant.
Neither could survive because evolution designed their bodies for the relative pressure they exist in. This is also related to how fast their hearth beats go.
Human sized bugs could not exist for the same pressure reason also.
Disclaimer: i am as much an expert on this as are you. Source is the internet. Possibility Kurtzgesagt.
if you build a perpetual motion machine and it eats the postman from seinfeld... you still made a perpetual motipn machine
But you'll have also made an employee of the Big Giant Head angry.
The new movies suck ass because they try to make science the bad guy, but not only is that a shit story we all see through, but it still reads as capitalistic greed and hubris, but now the movie feels like it doesn’t know what it’s talking about.
I mean, even the first movie reads that way.
Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
Meanwhile, the only reason the entire movie happened is because you idiots opened a money generating theme park.
Open a public dinosaur museum somewhere in the swiss alps, with european safety measures and a properly compensated sysadmin. The european union pays for the whole thing while ticket money goes to a research fund. There's also a backup power grid for the t-rex enclosure. See, it's not hard.
So... in the actual book(s), the problem is a bit of both.
The 'science' goes wrong because... well, they do not have complete dinosaur genome sequences.
And they fill in the gaps with a lot of DNA from a certain kind of frog.
A frog, that is later discovered to change its sex, transform from female into male, in environments/situations that are not sufficiently male/female balanced.
The explanation as to why the dinosaurs will not be a problem is that they only make female ones, so the population will remain exactly as they engineer.
... this does not work, because some of the dinos transform their sex, and begin breeding, which they essentially entirely did not account for.
Also in the book(s)... Hammond is much, much more clearly an unscrupulous capitalist... think roughly somebody that would have their accounts managed by Patrick Bateman, or maybe like a modern techbro, but his tech isn't crypto or ai or hyperscaling whatever bs app... its genetic engineering.
The original movie makes him into... much more of a genuinely enthusiastic, but more innocently naive, and sympathetic character... he is much more straightforwardly a thinly veiled corpo asshole in the book.
And because of this, the book punishes him.
In the book, near the end, as it looks like the surviving cast have escaped imminent danger, and is reasonably safe and secure, awaiting rescue...
... Hammond is very directly killed by his own hubris.
He decides he has some better idea about what to do, wanders off from the group, gets lost, and is torn to shreds by a pack of compies, compthagnasus, basically 10 or 20 or so of fairly small, maybe 1.5 foot ish tall tiny versions of velociraptors.
He makes a final, direct, hubristic act, and is literally torn to shreds by thousands of tiny cuts, but all at one time, the figurative recompense for his lifetime of shitty, reckless, self serving decisions.
Critchton was a damn good writer, RIP.
Anyway, the second movie, Lost World... is very, very loosely based on the second book, but it features a compy attack event as an inciting incident, the initial event...
...but they swap it to occuring to basically a completely innocent family who is vacationing on a nearby island, just a totally different and made up set of characters, where its now just some random assholeish wealthy corpo father who is bring hubristic, and iirc, a little girl is seriously injured, but not killed...
Its much less hubristic of a bad decision from the father, as he legitimately had no idea this random island was infested with fucking dinosaurs.
Also, iirc, the Lost World movie just throws away these characters, this family, after this gets the plot rolling, I don't think they are ever on screen again.
Its not a well written intro.
...
Its been a while since I've seen the original movie, fhe first sequel... and then yeah, never saw anything after that, because they just look immensely, increasingly stupid and nonsensical, not even having internal logic that is coherent or consistent... so I can't well comment on how the movie universe has evolved.
Well shit, I didn't think the Jurassic park books would ever end up on my reading list but here we are
Just hopping in to recommend the books. They're seriously good and the movies don't do them justice at all
They're very, very good. I reread them for probably the fourth time just last week.
There's an unexpected amount of philosophical rants and theory dropping throughout the book. Welcome, but unexpected for people who go in to read an action novel.
Yeah, if you didn't know, the whole movie franchise is ultimately based on the book, Jurassic Park, by Michael Crichton, who I honestly feel does not get enough credit as a genuinely compelling sci-fi thriller style of author... all the way back in 1969 he wrote Andromeda Strain, he's written a lot of ... yeah, sort of gritty, dense, thriller sci-fi novels.
The original series of movies... well, the first one is a pretty good, pretty adaptation if you're going for a wider, more family friendly audience... some characters are kind of merged together to keep the plot simpler to follow... its a reasonably faithful adaptation in terms of sticking to the exact contents of the novel, and of course, just a wildly succesful and beloved movie.
Crichton wrote Lost World, a sequel to his book... but the movie sequel Lost World... is basically an entire alternate timeline, a totally different story, only vaguely sharing some similarities with the book Lost World.
Then, every movie after that is just fan fiction, utterly diverged from the actual way the characters are portrayed in the books, plot is completely different, only really just keeping a few characters from the older movies around, but they're no longer anything like they are in the books, and of course you've got all the new characters just shoved into this completely divergent timeline... bleck.
I would strongly encourage you to read at least the first book.
Either every, or nearly every chapter begins with a sort of... disembodied, tangentially relevant thought from Malcolm, who is often relating whatever is roughly going to go on in that chapter to the actual mathematical principles and formulae of chaos theory.
The book functionally gives you an actual 'Intro to Chaos Theory 101' lesson as you read through it, with many of the chapters serving as an example, in at least some analagous way, of the concepts in these sort of disembodied, psuedo narration blurbs from Malcolm.
Its some of the best ludonarrative, or maybe... meta, self referential at another scale, consistency, and depth that I can remeber reading in something that is also paced so well that I again call it a 'thriller'.
Actually... "science" is a process of discovery about the natural world. To then use that knowledge gained would be engineering.
Technically, yes, colloquially, no.
It is very, very common for people to use science as a noun or even verb, to describe just... doing anything that requires an at least moderate understanding of some or multiple scientifc fields to be able to do properly.
Top comment! Only thing I feel not mentioned, even the science problems can ultimately be attributed to capitalism, as a lack of regulation.
A cautionary tale about Tech-bros. Should have listenend to it.
Yeah, that's what the line about could vs. should was about.
I've long found the notion that the lesson of Jurassic Park, if a fictional story like that must be taken to have one, should be something like "science/genetic engineering is bad" or "you can't control nature" to be a bit silly, given that, well, it's a zoo. With pretty big animals, to be sure, but dinosaurs were animals still, not kaiju or dragons or whatever other fantasy monster, and some genetically modified to be somewhat bigger and lack feathers would still be such. It's a story about some people building a zoo badly because they didn't do their due diligence about the animals they had and cheaped out on staff and the systems they had for containing the animals, and somehow people get the take away that "these animals are special and can't be safely contained" rather than "letting rich people cheap out on safety is a bad idea".
Were one to write a broadly similar story where someone cheaps out on a park containing elephants and tigers, and they get out and maul some people, it'd be obvious, but give the tigers scales and make them born in a lab and suddenly it's a monster movie.
Hard agree. My takeaway is the moral of the story is always do quality engineering. There have been like 10 movies and they still don't know how to construct an enclosure.
Why do they always only have one massive entrance to each enclosure? Why is it large enough for the Dinosaur to walk out of? Why don't they have two doors in series, airlock style?
Where I'm from, when engineers complete their certification they get an iron ring made from the material of a collapsed bridge. This is remind them to not become arrogant and think about everything that could go wrong.
You wouldn't be able to find a good engineer to design a park for animals no one really knows the behaviour of. Hammond would have to hire the people in this thread who think "yeah we could design something that will contain these animals, no problem at all!"
It's Frankenstein... scientists creating life from the parts of dead animals without any regard to the consequences.
Zoos can be poorly built and which can create horrible conditions for animals, but at least with with living animals we know what they eat and how they live in the wild and attempt to construct a micro-habitat for them to have decent lives in. With dead animals brought back to life, we wouldn't know how to do this.
What does a Triceratops eat? Why is that Triceratops sick? Will a T-Rex be happy living in a paddock being fed goats, or will it be trying to escape? Certain animals are very skilled at escaping enclosures and you have no idea which animals fall into that category. Which animals are going to be afraid of humans? Maybe none of them, maybe all of them, maybe some of them? If the goal is to make a zoo where people can actually see the animals that might be relevant to how the zoo is designed. Which animals will throw things at people, or spit at people?
I think you're showing the hubris of science that both Frankenstein and Jurrassic Park are warning against. There's a whole science involved with designing a zoo and they often get things wrong like the maximum height a pissed off tiger can jump. With genetically engineered animals that resemble dinosaurs, there would be more unknown variables than known variables. You're assuming you know those variable are irrelevant because apparently "good engineers" don't need to care about factors they don't understand?
I've just realised - Hammond was such a cheapskate that even the seatbelts in the helicopters didn't work properly.
there may be anti capital elements but it is a man vs nature plot with a suçon of trying to control something you dont understand or respect
gloriously right
Not really. The dinos were half-baked imitations, not exact replicas. And they evolved in ways the scientists didn’t anticipate, because their reach exceeded their grasp.
There’s definitely an anti-capitalist message, but don’t dismiss the warning about prematurely greenlighting high-stakes scientific initiatives. That’s relevant to the modern world, no matter what our economic model is.
LLMs come to mind. There’s a section of the AI-skeptic folks that say the only problem with AI is the profit motive. I’m not so sure. People will use tech to do all kinds of horrible shit even if they don’t stand to materially benefit. Just look at 4chan.
It's much more clear, especially if you read the book, that JP is about accountability. All throughout the book, as shit's going sideways and people are dying, everyone's playing hot potato with accountability. At the end, Grant forces Genero into investigating a wild raptor nest with him, in spite of Genero's protests that he's "just the lawyer" because somebody has to take some accountability.
Even the capitalist hubris is done wrong.
They knew how to activate the dwarfism gene. They could have been selling pygmy raptors and rexes as pets to everyone. At the right size they'd be no more dangerous than dogs or cats.
But no; we need a theme park that eats people.
How am I supposed to ride a pigmy T-rex into battle, wielding two m16s, and screaming "America!", then?
Chariots, string the t-rexes together like sled dogs, though now I think about it raptors might be better suited.
Science only views the world through the Cartesian division of subjects and objects and makes the world a calculable resource of objects that capitalism can exploit. The two work together. If we still saw the mystery and divine in nature, maybe we wouldn’t disrespect it so much.
Holy shit! Not only is that real, I now know what was in my garden last month!
You're getting downvoted but indigenous people in, say, Canada and Australia tend to be the staunchest pro-environment advocates so there's merit to this idea.
Ingen went all "move fast, break things" but with genetically engineered apex predators. Pretty much worked out exactly as expected.
No no no, it's all about paying your IT people well and being nice to them. If John had been nice to Needry, then Needry wouldn't have needed to betray him. Pay your IT people, be nice to them and everything would have been fine.
Hammond literally goes around gaslighting the entire group by saying “spared no expense” when in reality he cheaped out and cut every corner. His undoing was Dennis, who was the lowest bidder in a security contract. Instead of picking the absolute best, Hammond went with the lowest bidders. Even the T. rex fence should not have been so easy to break down, power or not. The entire park was built cheap and fast. Hammond was a capitalist playing conservationist.