this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
909 points (94.6% liked)

Technology

72017 readers
2739 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

We are constantly fed a version of AI that looks, sounds and acts suspiciously like us. It speaks in polished sentences, mimics emotions, expresses curiosity, claims to feel compassion, even dabbles in what it calls creativity.

But what we call AI today is nothing more than a statistical machine: a digital parrot regurgitating patterns mined from oceans of human data (the situation hasn’t changed much since it was discussed here five years ago). When it writes an answer to a question, it literally just guesses which letter and word will come next in a sequence – based on the data it’s been trained on.

This means AI has no understanding. No consciousness. No knowledge in any real, human sense. Just pure probability-driven, engineered brilliance — nothing more, and nothing less.

So why is a real “thinking” AI likely impossible? Because it’s bodiless. It has no senses, no flesh, no nerves, no pain, no pleasure. It doesn’t hunger, desire or fear. And because there is no cognition — not a shred — there’s a fundamental gap between the data it consumes (data born out of human feelings and experience) and what it can do with them.

Philosopher David Chalmers calls the mysterious mechanism underlying the relationship between our physical body and consciousness the “hard problem of consciousness”. Eminent scientists have recently hypothesised that consciousness actually emerges from the integration of internal, mental states with sensory representations (such as changes in heart rate, sweating and much more).

Given the paramount importance of the human senses and emotion for consciousness to “happen”, there is a profound and probably irreconcilable disconnect between general AI, the machine, and consciousness, a human phenomenon.

https://archive.ph/Fapar

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 59 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Good luck. Even David Attenborrough can't help but anthropomorphize. People will feel sorry for a picture of a dot separated from a cluster of other dots. The play by AI companies is that it's human nature for us to want to give just about every damn thing human qualities. I'd explain more but as I write this my smoke alarm is beeping a low battery warning, and I need to go put the poor dear out of its misery.

[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social 25 points 2 days ago

This is the current problem with "misalignment". It's a real issue, but it's not "AI lying to prevent itself from being shut off" as a lot of articles tend to anthropomorphize it. The issue is (generally speaking) it's trying to maximize a numerical reward by providing responses to people that they find satisfactory. A legion of tech CEOs are flogging the algorithm to do just that, and as we all know, most people don't actually want to hear the truth. They want to hear what they want to hear.

LLMs are a poor stand in for actual AI, but they are at least proficient at the actual thing they are doing. Which leads us to things like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCynxiV_8I

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’m still sad about that dot. 😥

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] benni@lemmy.world 51 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think we should start by not following this marketing speak. The sentence "AI isn't intelligent" makes no sense. What we mean is "LLMs aren't intelligent".

[–] innermachine@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (8 children)

So couldn't we say LLM's aren't really AI? Cuz that's what I've seen to come to terms with.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago (6 children)

To be fair, the term "AI" has always been used in an extremely vague way.

NPCs in video games, chess computers, or other such tech are not sentient and do not have general intelligence, yet we've been referring to those as "AI" for decades without anybody taking an issue with it.

[–] MajorasMaskForever@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

I don't think the term AI has been used in a vague way, it's that there's a huge disconnect between how the technical fields use it vs general populace and marketing groups heavily abuse that disconnect.

Artificial has two meanings/use cases. One is to indicate something is fake (video game NPC, chess bots, vegan cheese). The end product looks close enough to the real thing that for its intended use case it works well enough. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, treat it like a duck even though we all know it's a bunny with a costume on. LLMs on a technical level fit this definition.

The other definition is man made. Artificial diamonds are a great example of this, they're still diamonds at the end of the day, they have all the same chemical makeups, same chemical and physical properties. The only difference is they came from a laboratory made by adult workers vs child slave labor.

My pet theory is science fiction got the general populace to think of artificial intelligence to be using the "man-made" definition instead of the "fake" definition that these companies are using. In the past the subtle nuance never caused a problem so we all just kinda ignored it

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 1 day ago (19 children)

Anyone pretending AI has intelligence is a fucking idiot.

load more comments (19 replies)
[–] Geodad@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I've never been fooled by their claims of it being intelligent.

Its basically an overly complicated series of if/then statements that try to guess the next series of inputs.

[–] kromem@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago (4 children)

It very much isn't and that's extremely technically wrong on many, many levels.

Yet still one of the higher up voted comments here.

Which says a lot.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Given that the weights in a model are transformed into a set of conditional if statements (GPU or CPU JMP machine code), he's not technically wrong. Of course, it's more than just JMP and JMP represents the entire class of jump commands like JE and JZ. Something needs to act on the results of the TMULs.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] anzo@programming.dev 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I love this resource, https://thebullshitmachines.com/ (i.e. see lesson 1)..

In a series of five- to ten-minute lessons, we will explain what these machines are, how they work, and how to thrive in a world where they are everywhere.

You will learn when these systems can save you a lot of time and effort. You will learn when they are likely to steer you wrong. And you will discover how to see through the hype to tell the difference. ..

Also, Anthropic (ironically) has some nice paper(s) about the limits of "reasoning" in AI.

[–] Flagstaff@programming.dev 12 points 2 days ago (3 children)

ChatGPT 2 was literally an Excel spreadsheet.

I guesstimate that it's effectively a supermassive autocomplete algo that uses some TOTP-like factor to help it produce "unique" output every time.

And they're running into issues due to increasingly ingesting AI-generated data.

Get your popcorn out! 🍿

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I really hate the current AI bubble but that article you linked about "chatgpt 2 was literally an Excel spreadsheet" isn't what the article is saying at all.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago (13 children)

So why is a real “thinking” AI likely impossible? Because it’s bodiless. It has no senses, no flesh, no nerves, no pain, no pleasure.

This is not a good argument.

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The other thing that most people don't focus on is how we train LLMs.

We're basically building something like a spider tailed viper. A spider tailed viper is a kind of snake that has a growth on its tail that looks a lot like a spider. It wiggles it around so it looks like a spider, convincing birds they've found a snack, and when the bird gets close enough the snake strikes and eats the bird.

Now, I'm not saying we're building something that is designed to kill us. But, I am saying that we're putting enormous effort into building something that can fool us into thinking it's intelligent. We're not trying to build something that can do something intelligent. We're instead trying to build something that mimics intelligence.

What we're effectively doing is looking at this thing that mimics a spider, and trying harder and harder to tweak its design so that it looks more and more realistic. What's crazy about that is that we're not building this to fool a predator so that we're not in danger. We're not doing it to fool prey, so we can catch and eat them more easily. We're doing it so we can fool ourselves.

It's like if, instead of a spider-tailed snake, a snake evolved a bird-like tail, and evolution kept tweaking the design so that the tail was more and more likely to fool the snake so it would bite its own tail. Except, evolution doesn't work like that because a snake that ignored actual prey and instead insisted on attacking its own tail would be an evolutionary dead end. Only a truly stupid species like humans would intentionally design something that wasn't intelligent but mimicked intelligence well enough that other humans preferred it to actual information and knowledge.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] bbb@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This article is written in such a heavy ChatGPT style that it's hard to read. Asking a question and then immediately answering it? That's AI-speak.

[–] sobchak@programming.dev 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And excessive use of em-dashes, which is the first thing I look for. He does say he uses LLMs a lot.

[–] bbb@sh.itjust.works 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (11 children)

"…" (Unicode U+2026 Horizontal Ellipsis) instead of "..." (three full stops), and using them unnecessarily, is another thing I rarely see from humans.

Edit: Huh. Lemmy automatically changed my three fulls stops to the Unicode character. I might be wrong on this one.

load more comments (11 replies)
[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 13 points 1 day ago

Asking a question and then immediately answering it? That's AI-speak.

HA HA HA HA. I UNDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE. GOOD ONE. 🤖

[–] RalphWolf@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Steve Gibson on his podcast, Security Now!, recently suggested that we should call it "Simulated Intelligence". I tend to agree.

[–] goondaba@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’ve taken to calling it Automated Inference

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

People who don't like "AI" should check out the newsletter and / or podcast of Ed Zitron. He goes hard on the topic.

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Citation Needed (by Molly White) also frequently bashes AI.

I like her stuff because, no matter how you feel about crypto, AI, or other big tech, you can never fault her reporting. She steers clear of any subjective accusations or prognostication.

It’s all “ABC person claimed XYZ thing on such and such date, and then 24 hours later submitted a report to the FTC claiming the exact opposite. They later bought $5 million worth of Trumpcoin, and two weeks later the FTC announced they were dropping the lawsuit.”

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (27 children)

My thing is that I don’t think most humans are much more than this. We too regurgitate what we have absorbed in the past. Our brains are not hard logic engines but “best guess” boxes and they base those guesses on past experience and probability of success. We make choices before we are aware of them and then apply rationalizations after the fact to back them up - is that true “reasoning?”

It’s similar to the debate about self driving cars. Are they perfectly safe? No, but have you seen human drivers???

load more comments (27 replies)
[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

I’m neurodivergent, I’ve been working with AI to help me learn about myself and how I think. It’s been exceptionally helpful. A human wouldn’t have been able to help me because I don’t use my senses or emotions like everyone else, and I didn’t know it... AI excels at mirroring and support, which was exactly missing from my life. I can see how this could go very wrong with certain personalities…

E: I use it to give me ideas that I then test out solo.

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 30 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This is very interesting... because the general saying is that AI is convincing for non experts in the field it's speaking about. So in your specific case, you are actually saying that you aren't an expert on yourself, therefore the AI's assessment is convincing to you. Not trying to upset, it's genuinely fascinating how that theory is true here as well.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] PushButton@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That sounds fucking dangerous... You really should consult a HUMAN expert about your problem, not an algorithm made to please the interlocutor...

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Hey AI helped me stick it to the insurance man the other day. I was futzing around with coverage amounts on one of the major insurance companies websites pre-renewal to try to get the best rate and it spit up a NaN renewal amount for our most expensive vehicle. It let me go through with the renewal less that $700 and now says I'm paid in full for the six month period. It's been days now with no follow-up . . . I'm pretty sure AI snuck that one through for me.

[–] laranis@lemmy.zip 15 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Be careful... If you get in an accident I guaran-god-damn-tee you they will use it as an excuse not to pay out. Maybe after a lawsuit you'd see some money but at that point half of it goes to the lawyer and you're still screwed.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (26 children)

In that case let's stop calling it ai, because it isn't and use it's correct abbreviation: llm.

load more comments (26 replies)
[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I agreed with most of what you said, except the part where you say that real AI is impossible because it's bodiless or "does not experience hunger" and other stuff. That part does not compute.

A general AI does not need to be conscious.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's only as intelligent as the people that control and regulate it.

Given all the documented instances of Facebook and other social media using subliminal emotional manipulation, I honestly wonder if the recent cases of AI chat induced psychosis are related to something similar.

Like we know they're meant to get you to continue using them, which is itself a bit of psychological manipulation. How far does it go? Could there also be things like using subliminal messaging/lighting? This stuff is all so new and poorly understood, but that usually doesn't stop these sacks of shit from moving full speed with implementing this kind of thing.

It could be that certain individuals have unknown vulnerabilities that make them more susceptible to psychosis due to whatever manipulations are used to make people keep using the product. Maybe they're doing some things to users that are harmful, but didn't seem problematic during testing?

Or equally as likely, they never even bothered to test it out, just started subliminally fucking with people's brains, and now people are going haywire because a bunch of unethical shit heads believe they are the chosen elite who know what must be done to ensure society is able to achieve greatness. It just so happens that "what must be done," also makes them a ton of money and harms people using their products.

It's so fucking absurd to watch the same people jamming unregulated AI and automation down our throats while simultaneously forcing traditionalism, and a legal system inspired by Catholic integralist belief on society.

If you criticize the lack of regulations in the wild west of technology policy, or even suggest just using a little bit of fucking caution, then you're trying to hold back progress.

However, all non-tech related policy should be based on ancient traditions and biblical text with arbitrary rules and restrictions that only make sense and benefit the people enforcing the law.

What a stupid and convoluted way to express you just don't like evidence based policy or using critical thinking skills, and instead prefer to just navigate life by relying on the basic signals from your lizard brain. Feels good so keep moving towards, feels bad so run away, or feels scary so attack!

Such is the reality of the chosen elite, steering us towards greatness.

What's really "funny" (in a we're all doomed sort of way) is that while writing this all out, I realized the "chosen elite" controlling tech and policy actually perfectly embody the current problem with AI and bias.

Rather than relying on intelligence to analyze a situation in the present, and create the best and most appropriate response based on the information and evidence before them, they default to a set of pre-concieved rules written thousands of years ago with zero context to the current reality/environment and the problem at hand.

[–] Angelusz@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Super duper shortsighted article.

I mean, sure, some points are valid. But there's not just programmers involved, other professions such as psychologists and Philosophers and artists, doctors etc. too.

And I agree AGI probably won't emerge from binary systems. However... There's quantum computing on the rise. Latest theories of the mind and consciousness discuss how consciousness and our minds in general also appear to work with quantum states.

Finally, if biofeedback would be the deciding factor.. That can be simulated, modeled after a sample of humans.

The article is just doomsday hoo ha, unbalanced.

Show both sides of the coin...

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›