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submitted 9 months ago by frauholle1punkt0@feddit.org to c/buyeuropean@feddit.uk

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

"Become a world power"

You know, we've had that experience before, "everywhere else" would pretty much prefer that didn't happen again, thank you very much.

[+] fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Scott_of_the_Arctic@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Yes and no. Countries like Russia and China are always going to exist. That means places like the Philippines, Taiwan, Ukraine, and Georgia are always going to need a strong ally if they don't want to be invaded. There are a lot of countries that are going to be very worried now that America has turned heel (Especially Taiwan). Europe has mostly grown out of the need for constant expansion, so having them take on the role of world police wouldn't be the worst thing to happen.

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Uh... How exactly is China historically expansionist? Isn't Europe much, much worse by any metric at basically any point of history you choose?

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

How exactly is China historically expansionist?

Tibet used to be a seperate contry. The Uygurs were a Turkic Khanate to themselves.

Bejing's aim is to homogenise those regions instead of preserving their culture and integrate them further economically to China as a whole, which would have the benefit of improved economic outcomes to both "parties" and maintain arts, culture and liberties of the people there.

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Tibet used to be a seperate contry

Tibet used to be a feudalist dictatorship where 80% of the population were essentially slaves legally bound to the land of landowners.

Bejing's aim is to homogenise those regions instead of preserving their culture

How many official languages are there in your country?

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

How many official languages are there in your country?

a million billion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com -1 points 9 months ago

Nah, I'm not doing a whataboutism, I'm saying that your white ass doesn't have a remote understanding on what "homogenisation" means. Go to a history museum in China, and in most exhibits they'll have some remarks of the history in different places of modern China, and to the different ethnicities of the country, to the point that it would be categorised as PC-inclusivism in the west. And they don't have a far right party fighting to destroy that :)

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago

Tibet used to be a seperate contry

300 years ago

[–] Echofox@lemmy.ca 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Annexation of Tibet (1950-1951)

Invasion of Paracel Islands (1974)

Southern Mongolia Annexation (1947-1949)

Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands Dispute: China claims the Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu Islands), which are currently controlled by Japan but also claimed by Taiwan.

PROC claims Taiwan as a province, but Taiwan operates as a de facto independent country.

South China Sea (Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia), PROC claims nearly the entire South China Sea under its "Nine-Dash Line", leading to conflicts with Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and others.

India - China claims Arunachal Pradesh as "South Tibet."

But it's important to point out that "China" isn't a country, rather a region. The country people generally refer to when they say "China" is the PROC. If you go back 1000 years there was no "China" country, there was the Ming Empire in the China region. I understand this perspective bothers people, but consider this, if you need to reduce countries to regions then you're going to be bothered for the rest of your life.

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com -1 points 9 months ago

Annexation of Tibet (1950-1951)

Southern Mongolia Annexation (1947-1949)

Civil-war era. Calling the liberation of Tibet expansionism is wild.

The rest are basically border conflicts which literally every country in the old continent have.

If you go back 1000 years there was no "China" country, there was the Ming Empire in the China region

You'd be hard-pressed to find a big country with such preservation of language, traditions, culture, architecture and artistic styles, etc. the way China does, idk what's your point

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

lol yea. I’m an American and fully support other nations boycotting our goods but I’m noticing an overlap with these boycotts and nationalist-imperialist sentiments.

[–] El_Scapacabra@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Weirdly enough, from what I've seen, European nationalists tend to be very much against the EU.

[–] foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev 2 points 9 months ago

you're missing Euronationalism as category.

[–] darthelmet@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Maybe we don’t want to do that again… people have some really short memories.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago

You need to allow for the possibility that you're surrounded by nazis

[–] Shezzagrad@lemmy.ml -1 points 9 months ago

You guys don't have the same suprise factor anymore. Europe will never be a long term power. True Power is moving back east

[–] OrloNorppa@sopuli.xyz 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

One could argue it already is - mainly on a soft power level. Now that Ursula has chopped the chains off the war chest we can get back the hard power as well. I feel very good about this, it's rare to feel optimistic about the way your country and union is going...

[–] gon@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Yup yup... A little scary though...

[–] OrloNorppa@sopuli.xyz 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

That is the reason why I gotta just trust that the people running the country and EU know what they are doing.

I am in Finland and I really do trust we are doing what we need to, our defense forces and government is very shush shush regarding defense, every government and defense outlet was adamant that we weren't joining NATO until the foreign minister and president announced the move. At least in a country of 5 million we are really thinking of each other here. Let's just hope that is the case for the rest of the EU and the overall union.

Slava Ukraini

[–] gon@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Trust? I don't trust any politician... Here in Portugal we're almost certainly going for early elections because the government is gonna fail a confidence vote...

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Having lived over 2 decades in a couple of countries in Europe (including Portugal, were I hail from), lets just say that Portugal is quite a lot more corrupt than average, sort of half-way between Western Europe and Latin America.

Mind you, that it's a scandal this kind of funny business (the family of the PM buying almost a million euros of realestate in cash using money undeclared to the political transparency authority) and that the Government is likely to fall for it, is actually a step forward from the Past - in the old days there wasn't even the obligation for sitting Government politicians and Parliament members to declare their incomes and the sources of it in an open way, so this would have never have come to light.

So this is an actual positive and reflects an improvement in Portugal (though painfully slow as it's fought every step by the two main parties who pretty much only ever vote together when it's to stop anti-corruption measures).

[–] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well it's either that or we'll end up being steamrolled by Russia, China or the US

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 1 points 9 months ago

Being able to defend your territory does not make you a "superpower" being able to step on other peoples territory does. The EU needs to build up good defensive capabilities, but it should refrain from offensive capabilities to project power like the US or Russia. Instead we need to focus on improving diplomatic ties with Africa, South America and non-China Asia to become the forerunners of a new Third World.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

We tried that a few times, and war/imperialism crimes.

But this time it will be diffident. We is evolved now.
(Never mind the rising support of the alt-right parties in the last decade.)

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

For the love of God Europe, we need a world power that actually respects human rights, not outright rejects them like Russia, pretends to embrace like America, or outright rejects them while tankies pretend that China embraces them.

[–] leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 9 months ago

You're looking in the wrong place. Several EU members have far right leaders already, many more are moving right. The EU (and UK) are about 4 or 5 years behind the US. Don't confuse disagreement with Trump over Ukraine with meaningful ideological differences.

[–] LeninOnAPrayer@lemm.ee 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What do you define as "human rights"? Because I would say that the western ideas of them have failed pretty heavily especially when it comes to deciding who they are enforced for and who they are not.

I think we need to be more critical of past ideas as they are the exact ideas that have brought us here. Doomed to repeat it and all that.

I would say to learn from all of the societies you mentioned instead of simplifying something into "China bad" or "Russia bad" or "America Bad".

It's ignorant to look at a world power like China and throw out all of the good they have done for their people. There are absolutely things we can learn from their success and failure. But I guess saying this is gonna make me a "Tankie".

As Carlin said. If God gave us "rights" he'd have given us a right to a good meal everyday. I think it's important to not fall into western superiority. It's especially important for us to rethink what we think of as "rights" because it has not been working that well, no matter the intention.