this post was submitted on 13 May 2025
1 points (100.0% liked)

Science Memes

14992 readers
56 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Midnitte@beehaw.org 0 points 3 weeks ago

Oh sure, throw a fit — just wait until you want to convert those units to kilojoules!

Who's laughing now, tablespoons?!

[–] blackbrook@mander.xyz 0 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

That doesn't work anyway, since based on wheat variety, growing season, and grinding method, different flours have different information density.

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They have an international prototype sack of flour in an old missile silo in Kansas. Ultimately that's what all the measurements are relative to

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I like to read bedtime stories to my wheat, so it learns more and has higher information density

[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 3 weeks ago

I just plug mine into USB ports

[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago

Sounds like the culinary world would benefit from having a measurement system that accounts for these factors.

[–] WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 0 points 3 weeks ago

Hundred sextillion terabytes. Yeah, everybody of calling it hungry sex bites in minutes.

[–] Sedathems@mander.xyz 0 points 3 weeks ago

I have absolutely no understanding of whatever is said here

[–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Wouldn't this make the units temperature-dependent?

Landauer limit is one kTln2 per bit of information, so at 300K about 4 zeptojoule per bit.
Dividing by c² we get 46 micro-quectogram per bit, so 46 yoctogram per terabit. 369 yoctogram per terabyte.
The Author wants half a septillion terabytes, 0.5•10²⁴ terabytes, half a yotta-terabyte.
That makes 184 grams.

Since I don't know what on earth "a cup of flour" is, I can't judge if the comic character proposes a reasonable conversion, but 0.2kg seems like a reasonable amount to use in cooking.

For baking I would rather have my units temperature dependent than density dependent (I can compact my flour or work with water or nuts, all having different densities, but my room temperature will always be roughly 300).
I endorse einstein-landauer units.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

184 grams is a touch high for "a cup of flour", but I'm not gonna check your math, and the comic probably wanted to use "close enough" round-ish numbers. The weight of a cup of flour is usually somewhere between 120g and 145g, going by the conversions used by major baking recipe publishers like King Arthur, Cooks Illustrated, Washington Post, New York Times, etc.

[–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago

I fear their apartment is at -50°C and this is a cry for help.

At least I am relieved to know that even acclaimed authors native to the cup-measurement system don't know what "a cup of flour is".

I'll be off baking my pannenkoek with 150g of flour then.

[–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago

I figured it out. Typed the ln2 into my text and then forgot it in the calculator.
Great, I'ma redo alll my numbers then rq

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Mass, not weight! Only because we're being technical already.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Grams are a measure of mass or weight. I assume we're talking about measuring this flour here on planet earth, within the effects of its gravitational field lol

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

At what elevation and where in Earth? 🤔 Again, only being this technical because that's the tone. Not being pedantic.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The variance involved in converting cups of flour to grams is much greater than any gravitational variances caused by elevation or location. So that's sort of irrelevant here.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh, I disagree, on goofy technical posts like this is exactly the place to worry about it.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago

Lmao I'm not upset dawg, just matching your nitpicks with more nitpicks

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] DahGangalang@infosec.pub 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Metric appears to end at 10^30, but even then, I think the better way to phrase that number would be 5,000 quetta-bytes

Tera = 10^12; Septillion = 10^21 Source

[–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

*500 000 quettabytes
*Sextillion = 10^21 ( = Zetta)

I'd recommend wikipedia here, your source seems to have taken 3 years to update their table and their image is still outdated.

They likely didn't use quetta because it was only added 3 years ago, and is still not widely known. Or maybe it sounded better.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 0 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

Information is physical? I'm gonna need a source on that one.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

i will Physically bitchslap you then you can deduce yourself the information about whether your face hurts or not, ayy lmao.

At least that's how I choose to interpret this new information

[–] LanguageIsCool@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I’d give a source but it’s physically in my house and it’s heavy

[–] cholesterol@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The idea is that information must have a physical representation. But I don't know how that would lead to a standardized mass of a byte.

[–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

No, you missed the point. See @milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee's comment and link to Landauer's Principle, the namesake of which is literally named in the title of the post.

TL;DR: Storing information requires a change in entropy. A change in entropy requires a change in energy. There must be a minimum non-zero amount of energy required for a given quantity of information. Energy is mass due to mass-energy equivalence. ∴ information has mass independent of its physical representation.

[–] cholesterol@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

There must be a minimum non-zero amount of energy required for a given quantity of information.

Okay, but I still don't get how that leads to a standardized measure of energy/mass for a given amount of bytes. That seems to be the premise of the comic.

information has mass independent of its physical representation.

So what is the mass of a byte of 'pure' information? And how do you derive it?

[–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

So what is the mass of a byte of ‘pure’ information? And how do you derive it?

That's all in the linked wikipedia article, but since you asked:

At room temperature, the Landauer limit represents an energy of approximately 0.018 eV (2.9×10^−21^ J).

That's 1 bit, so 1 byte is eight times that, which you can plug into E=mc^2^ to get its absurdly small equivalent mass.

It's important(?) to note that Landauer's Principle is not settled science and has yet to be rigorously proven, unless there's some recent development which the comic is referencing. I haven't checked.

[–] cholesterol@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

That’s all in the linked wikipedia article

I appreciate you spelling some of it out, because I'm just curious and don't have the background knowledge to really navigate this.

[–] lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 3 weeks ago

When referencing another person's comment, it can be helpful to link to that comment or the article you mentioned.

I'd also like to point out that many Wikipedia articles, particularly those written by experts on a given scientific subject, tend to be daunting rather than helpful for people not yet familiar with that subject.

Explanations like the one you offered in this comment and the next reply can help make topics more approachable, so I very much appreciate that.

To illustrate my point:

In this case, the article first describes the principle as "pertaining to a lower theoretical limit of energy consumption of computation", which doesn't directly highlight the connection to information storage. The next sentence then mentions "irreversible change in information" and "merging two computational paths", both of which are non-trivial.

From a brief glance at the article on reversible computing linked further on, I gather that "irreversible" here doesn't mean "you can't flip the bit again" but rather something like "you can't deterministically figure out the previous calculation from its result", so the phrase boils down to "storing a piece of information" for our context. The example of "merging computational paths" probably has no particular bearing on the energy value of information either and can be ignored as well.

Figuring out the resulting logic that you so kindly laid out – again, thank you for that! – requires a degree of subject-specific understanding to know what parts of the explanation can be safely ignored.

Of course, experts want to be accurate and tend to think in terms they're familiar with, so I don't fault them for that. The unfortunate result is that their writings are often rather intransparent to laypeople and linking to Wikipedia articles isn't always the best way to convey an understanding.

[–] Natanael@infosec.pub 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Entropy in information theory is equivalent to entropy in quantum dynamics / thermodynamics

[–] Zip2@feddit.uk 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Still a more acceptable measurement than “1 cup”.

[–] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

The whole point of cups is that you can buy an ingredient by the gallon and it's very likely that you can double or halve the recipe to your heart's content and eventually use up the entire package with no waste.

[–] Zip2@feddit.uk 0 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)
[–] Opisek@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago

An old, old wooden ship.

[–] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

A useful size to package and sell ingredients in, such that the person following a recipe can halve or double the recipe as needed and still use the entire package with no waste.

Would it help if I told you that it was defined as the volume contained in a cube whose length is the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1/166219513th of a second? I imagine it wouldn't. Obviously the litre is superior, it's a much less arbitrary cube defined by the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1/2997924580 seconds.

[–] Zip2@feddit.uk 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

But no one weighs flour in litres.

[–] BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago

This guy does.

Where I'm from, flour is sold as packages of 1kg, which they say is 1000g (way too much in my humble opinion) , which cannot be easily divided with simple maths when I want to halve or double my recipe. Recipe specify flour in grams, which makes it so very complicated when I need to convert it to ngogn, in the end I'm always left with flour in my package when I want to double the size of my cakes, which wouldn't happen if the package size was sold in cubic potrzebies.

[–] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

You guys have to weigh your flour? We just grab a cup and scoop it and then dump it in the bowl. You're busting out the scale? You're not exactly selling me on metric here.

[–] Zip2@feddit.uk 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

What can I say, other than we don’t have an industrial amount of ingredients in our houses and we like accuracy in our recipes.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

What I do is my scale is underneath my bowl, every time I need to add a quantity of an ingredient I reset it to zero with what's in it.

Though I get that filling a cup and dumping it in seems very practical at first glance, what happen when you need 3/4 of a cup ? Or 1.5 cup ? Do you have 20 cup in the kitchen of different sizes, then you need to grab the one of the correct size which isn't more practical than having a scale which can do infinite granularity, also I expect you would take the wrong cup on many occasions and get the wrong quantity

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Honytawk@feddit.nl 0 points 3 weeks ago

Something that can be divided by cups I believe

[–] Morpholemew@lemm.ee 0 points 3 weeks ago

A little more than 4.5 liters. Except a certain nearby country uses a little less than 3.8 liters as their gallon, so we get all sorts of "smaller than a gallon" packages labeled as a gallon, leading to people getting ripped off if they don't realize they're being sold something less than a gallon as if it were a full gallon.

In other words, the gallon is the original shrinkflation unit of measure.

[–] Honytawk@feddit.nl 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, because no other metric can be divided by an other size of the same metric.

That is why I always have 100ml over whenever I divide a liter by 250ml increments.

[–] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Well then you've lost the whole advantage of base 10. You're buying 2L or 4L containers and dividing them up into 250ml increments, having to do divisions of 8 or 16 like some common imperial peasant, only you're doing it with numbers that have no real relationship with your daily life. I mean, ultimately it's all arbitrary anyway. But when someone says use 2 cups, that's 2 scoops, which seems better to me than having to know that 500ml is 2 scoops.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] gradual@lemmings.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

This kind of humor is what's wrong with modern males.

[–] shoo@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Since I've seen you trolling in multiple threads and know you get a kick out of it, I'll bite:

What in the world is wrong with this humor and why does it have anything to do with modern males?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago
load more comments
view more: next ›