News and Discussions about Reddit
Welcome to !reddit. This is a community for all news and discussions about Reddit.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules
Rule 1- No brigading.
**You may not encourage brigading any communities or subreddits in any way. **
YSKs are about self-improvement on how to do things.
Rule 2- No illegal or NSFW or gore content.
**No illegal or NSFW or gore content. **
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-Reddit posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.
view the rest of the comments
In an academic sense i agree with you that this is how fascism is and that there is logic to it they wont want to pursue a scenario where they do not have the hierarchical upper hand in a violent clash.
However i doubt this is how most modern fascists are and how its ideology spreads. I am willing to bet that the vast majority of Americans neo nazis don’t even know who Mussolini is. The “leopards ate my face” phenomenon is a result of this. So is the “local known immigrant good, stranger immigrant bad” They are essentially brainwashed into the ideology of hate without truly understanding what it is about. They are equally brainwashed to distance themselves or look away from the people around them that do commit violence.
When asked in the streets supporters of trumps deportation plans expressed its only natural that said thing was done in a humane and ethical way and they trust those that execute such plan achieve this. When they do witness violence from their side they believe the victim must have deserved it in some horrible way. Only a small minority understands and expresses a desire to kill just because of ethnicity.
To me the entire war rhetoric between political left vs right is a function of the greater fascist ideal. While we are occupied fighting fascist appearing neighbors, those in power with the money and means to instruct real systematic oppression, censorship and in control of the state monopoly on n violence are not being stopped.
I'd say that it's not about fascist appearing neighbours it's about preventing the normalisation of fascism, like it's just another mainstream political viewpoint.
I think what can be achieved is the splitting off of the unthinking mass who support curbs on immigration (in practical terms fascism can only do without immigration because it intends to institute some form of indentured or slave labour) from the hardcore fascists by making it clear that fascists are abhorrent.
Amen on preventing the normalization of fascism and on trying to split the unthinking mass the same as the Nazi intellectual.
But i am a bit confused about the argument here. I believe you are in favor of calling for violence against fascism in a wider sense. And therefor interpret ops message in the same way.
I am in a somewhat mirrored perspective where i feel strong about pacifism and freedom of speech. Words can hurt but to me can be never be labeled as violent, so i read op as valid but colorful expression. They also themselves express that they do not see their own message as a call to violence.
Fascism is naturally abhorrent, but how does threatening fascist expression show that abhorrence to those trapped within? If our threat is general and op meant indeed a call to violence against all including non violent fascist express then we do the opposite of splitting those groups and actually mostly the unthinking will be targeted. Then Violence calls for more violence and only those rich enough to fly away will be unharmed.
OK let's return to OPs original example. Mussolini strung up. Good job and all. I don't particularly like talking about deserts because it's a childish misunderstanding of the universe. Nobody deserves anything. They get what they get. Having said that, if you're a Fascist dictator who uses violence and fear on your own population, you're going to store up some resentment and if said resentment finds an opportunity and an outlet you can reasonably expect a bad outcome.
I would go one further than OP and say that if you materially aid and abet said Fascist dictator, as for example his girlfriend, you should reasonably expect to share that bad outcome and happily she did.
There were a great many partisans who took revenge on the fascists at the end of the war and this also should not have come as a surprise to them.
OP is using Mussolini as an object lesson here, to use the modern way of putting it: Fuck around and find out. Which Mussolini did and modern fascists may also expect to also.
The January 6th 'protesters' were pardoned but they also spent a deal of time in jail. They fucked around and they found out.
If the full weight of Trump's Republic protects them they may feel emboldened but eventually the fascist regime always falls because they are economically illiterate, their inner circle fight like rats in a sack, they are incompetent and once the leader dies the whole collapses. And at that point fascists who have been doing fascist stuff should expect not clemency or mercy or any of the things they denied other people. They should expect to be upside down in a petrol station or something equally unpleasant.
It used to be that even the most unthinking and, frankly, racist people that I came across in work and the various places I used to drink would have been appalled to be lumped in with fascists and Nazis who were characterised as social misfits and considered beyond the pail. Everyone who was racist knew it was wrong. And now it has been normalised. If we'd been less tolerant of people presenting the racist arguments year after year and rather than trying to educate or reason with them had offered them violence or the credible threat thereof we'd be in a better position now. They'd have never reached the mainstream because they'd have been seen as losers still by the unthinking.