this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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[–] Rusty@lemmy.ca 43 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

You can add SQL in the 70s. It was created to be human readable so business people could write sql queries themselves without programmers.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 19 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Ironically, one of the universal things I've noticed in programmers (myself included) is that newbie coders always go through a phase of thinking "why am I writing SQL? I'll write a set of classes to write the SQL for me!" resulting in a massively overcomplicated mess that is a hundred times harder to use (and maintain) than a simple SQL statement would be. The most hilarious example of this I ever saw was when I took over a young colleague's code base and found two classes named "OR.cs" and "AND.cs". All they did was take a String as a parameter, append " OR " or " AND " to it, and return it as the output. Very forward-thinking, in case the meanings of "OR" and "AND" were ever to change in future versions of SQL.

[–] jacksilver@lemmy.world 11 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

Object Relational Mapping can be helpful when dealing with larger codebases/complex databases for simply creating a more programmatic way of interacting with your data.

I can't say it is always worth it, nor does it always make things simpler, but it can help.

[–] trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

I don't have a lot of experience with projects that use ORMs, but from what I've seen it's usually not worth it. They tend to make developers lazy and create things where every query fetches half the database when they only need one or two columns from a single row.

[–] red_bull_of_juarez@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 48 minutes ago

Yeah. Unless your data model is dead simple, you will end up not only needing to know this additional framework, but also how databases and SQL work to unfuck the inevitable problems.

[–] red_bull_of_juarez@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 48 minutes ago

Yeah. Unless your data model is dead simple, you will end up not only needing to know this additional framework, but also how databases and SQL work to unfuck the inevitable problems.

[–] bort@sopuli.xyz 5 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

the problem with ORM is that some people go all in on it and ignore pure SQL completely.

In reality ORM only works well for somewhat simple queries and structures, but at some times you will have to write your own queries in SQL. But then you have some bonus complexity, that comes from 2 different things filling the same niche. It's still worth it, but there is no free cake.

[–] elkien@lemmy.today 2 points 3 hours ago

I've always seen as that as a scapehatch for one of the most typical issues with ORMs, like the the N+1 problem, but I never fully bought it as a real solution.

Mainly because in large projects this gets abused (turns out none or little of the SQL has a companion test) and one of the most oversold benefits of ORMs (the possibility of "easily" refactor the model) goes away.

Since SQL is code and should be tested like any other code, I rather ditch the whole ORM thing and go SQL from the beginning. It may be annoying for simple queries but induces better habits.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 29 minutes ago

I used to use ORMs because they made switching between local dev DBs ( like SQLLite, or Postgres) and production DBs usually painless. Especially for Ruby/Sinatra/Rails since we were writing the model queries in another abstraction. It meant we didn’t have to think as much about joins and all that stuff. Until the performance went to shit and you had to work out why.

[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 7 hours ago

What part of this is irony?

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 10 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

So is COBOL.

(Is there any sane alternative to SQL?)

[–] drasglaf@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 hours ago

(Is there any sane alternative to SQL?)

Yes, no SQL.