this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2025
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[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Without Intel processors, Linux wouldn't have been possible in the first place.

But today we have good processors from many different manufacturers. The Linux community must, and can, stay alive even without the support of one major player.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 32 points 1 day ago (2 children)

We don't have that many other processors, though. If you look at the desktop, there is AMD and there is Apple silicon which is restricted to Apple products. And then there is nothing. If Intel goes under ground, AMD might become next Intel. It's time (for EU) to invest heavily into RISC-V, the entire stack.

[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

ARMs are coming. RISCV are coming. Some Chinese brands have been seen, too.

[–] exu@feditown.com 8 points 23 hours ago

Neither are commonly available in desktop form factors and they usually require custom builds for each board to work.

[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago

And for many x86 will remain an important architecture for a long time

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 points 21 hours ago

ARMs are more oriented towards servers and mobile devices for now. Sure, we saw Apple demonstrating desktop use but not much is there for desktops for now. RISC-V is far away, Chinese CPUs are not competitive. It's coming doesn't help in short term, questionable in mid term. 🤷‍♂️ Yes, alternatives will come eventually, but it takes a lot of time and resources.

[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 2 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (1 children)

There is ARM also found on apple,raspberry pi,Orange Pi but those are SBCS(except apple) they can always be turned into normal laptops and desktops and such.
The only problem with ARM its a closed ISA like X64.
The only Problem with both ARM AND RISC-V They are RISC not CISC like x64 so better power consumption with lower clock speeds, bad for desktop great for laptops and such.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 5 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

RISC is perfectly good for desktops as demonstrated by Apple. Microcontroller chips are suitable for light desktop tasks, they are nowhere near modern x64 CPUs. For now.

[–] Eknz@lemmy.eknz.org 6 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (2 children)

It doesn't really make much of a difference on modern CPUs as instructions are broken down into RISC-like instructions even on CISC CPUs before being processed to make pipelining more effective.

[–] LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works 5 points 17 hours ago

This is the correct answer. Modern x86 (x64) is a RISC CPU with a decoder that can decode a cisc isa.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 2 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

From what I remember one of problems with CISC is that it has variable length instructions and these are harder to predict since you have to analyze all instructions up to the current one wheres for RISC you exactly know where is each instruction in memory/cache.

[–] The_Decryptor@aussie.zone 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

one of problems with CISC is that it has variable length instructions

RISC systems also have variable length instructions, they're just a bit stricter with the implementation that alleviates a lot of the issues (ARM instructions are always either 16-bits or 32-bits, while RISC-V is always a multiple of 16-bits and self-describing, similar to UTF-8)

Edit: Oh, and ARM further restricts instruction length based on a CPU flag, so you can't mix and match at an instruction level. It's always one or the other, or it's invalid.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 points 3 minutes ago

I was thinking about Apple's M CPUs that have fixed length and they benefit out of it. It was explained on Anandtech years ago, here is a brief paragraph on the topic. Sadly Anandtech article(s) isn't available anymore.

Since this type of chip has a fixed instruction length, it becomes simple to load a large number of instructions and explore opportunities to execute operations in parallel. This is what’s called out-of-order execution, as explained by Anandtech in a highly technical analysis of the M1. Since complex CISC instructions can access memory before completing an operation, executing instructions in parallel becomes more difficult in contrast to the simpler RISC instructions.

[–] Eknz@lemmy.eknz.org 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

This isn't completely true. Even a basic instruction like ADD has multiple implementations depending on the memory sources.

For example, if the memory operand is in RAM, then the ADD needs to be decoded to include a fetch before the actual addition. RISC doesn't change that fact.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, but RISC knows the exact position of that instruction in cache and how many instructions fit the instructions cache or pipeline. Like you said, it doesn't help with data cache.

[–] Eknz@lemmy.eknz.org 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Are you sure there's a significant difference in machine code between RISC and CISC after instructions are decoded?

The assembly in RISC is just an abstraction of the machine code, as it also is in CISC. If the underlying CPU has the same capabilities then it doesn't really matter what the assembly looks like?

Of course, the underlying CPUs aren't the same and that's the real point of differentiation.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 points 2 minutes ago
[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 1 points 20 hours ago

alr thanks for the info

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why did Linux need Intel processors specifically?

[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

The PC was new. There were only Intels in PCs. Linux was made for the PC.

Backstory: Prof. Tanenbaum was teaching operating systems. His example was MINIX (his own academic example). This motivated one student to try to make a new operating system for PCs, doing some things like the professor, and other things quite differently. This student knew the specifics of the Intels and used them good for performance etc.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 6 points 21 hours ago

Sure, but if Intel hadn't made the 8086 and that entire family line was severed, Linux would have just been made for Motorola 68000 series or something. Or one of the Acorn ARM chips that did the rounds at the time.