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Only very tangentially related to this
I work in 911 dispatch. Part of our hiring process is after the initial interview and aptitude test, they have applicants come in to do a job shadow with us for an hour or two. Basically just sit with us while we're answering and dispatching calls, see what the work we do is actually like, gives them a chance ask us questions, and we can kind of feel them out to see if they'd be a good fit.
And a shocking amount of people make it to that stage and then don't show up for their job shadow.
I'm admittedly biased, since I work here, but I feel like even if I didn't actually have any interest in the job, that would be an interesting peek behind the curtain that I'd still want to see regardless.
Your basically asking people to work an hour or two for free. Fuck that.
No more than for any other sort of job interview. They're not answering calls, they're sitting there listening.
And honestly I thought it was a great experience when I got hired, it gave me a real inside look to what the workplace culture was before I started here, and a chance to talk to and ask questions to people who are actually doing the job I was applying for instead of some HR/supervisor/deputy director type.
And since we obviously work 24/7/365 we can pretty much make any time work for these applicants, so they don't need to take off from work or anything to come in and do it. We get a lot of them on nights and weekends.
It's also pretty necessary to make sure people can handle it. It can get really intense at times, and seeing an incident unfold in real time is a very different experience than listening to a recording of a call after the fact. Class space to train new dispatchers is limited, and almost every dispatch center is constantly short-staffed, so we really need to make our hires count, and we lose plenty enough throughout the training process as it is, we don't want to spend a couple months training someone only to get them out on the floor to realize that they can't emotionally handle listening to, let alone actually handling 911 calls.
Did you miss the part where they were not answering any calls or doing any hands on work? The shadow is for the applicant to observe and see if they still want the job.
911 dispatch is not flipping burgers, peoples lives are at stake. They need to be on their toes and not have cold feet if they realize they can't handle the stress or are in way over their heads.
Still work, and no one should do it for free. I worked at a lot call centers and even had an ex who did 911 calls. You don't work for free. To easy to exploit. Also heard they don't pay worth a shit compared to the trauma you experience working there. Probably why they don't show up. Its pays shit and even just watching is work. And don't try make it out as if it's easier then other type of work.
You're still asking them to be present in a job environment. I get why you do that, but i also see why it would nark people. It's taking unpaid time for preparation for a job they may not even get.
Do you expect people to get paid for showing up to a job interview? Because that's, in essence, what it is- a second round of interviews, albeit a pretty informal one.
And since we're obviously a 24/7 operation, there's a lot of flexibility on when we can schedule it, not like most interviews where you probably have to take time off of work for it, we do a lot of them on weekends and evenings.
It's also a really good chance to see what the workplace culture and actual day-to-day reality of the job is like and to talk to people who are actually doing the job instead of just taking some suit from HR's word for it.
If it's two hours long, yes! I expect to get paid for that time. Absolutely.
I have never shadowed at a new job and had it be unpaid.
For a new job, sure, you should be getting paid. This is part of the hiring process, you don't have the job yet.
I've known a lot of people who've gotten jobs that have had a half dozen or so rounds of interviews, how many hours does that add up to? Every other interview I've ever done was at least 30-45 minutes, so after 3 rounds or so of interviews at another job you've pretty much broken even on that.
And with other jobs that's often spread over multiple days or weeks that you'd probably need to take time off from your current job for. I'd gladly take this hour or two on a night or weekend over that.
This isn't an interview.
This is live running in a work environment.
It is sitting there listening to and watching someone do the job.
They're not answering calls, they're not entering anything into the computer, they're not doing paperwork, the most they're going to be asked to do is "hey can you move your chair a bit, I need to get into that drawer"
In fact, if they tried to do any of those things they'd be kicked right the fuck out, that would be a whole mess of liability issues since they don't have any of the necessary training or certifications.
They're observing to see what the job entails. They're (hopefully) asking questions to see if it's a good fit for them, and we're seeing how they react to what they're hearing and what their attitude is like to see if they're going to be a good fit.
When I have a job shadow with me, nothing changes about how I do my job except I scoot my chair a little further to the left to make room for them, and between calls I'm chatting mostly with them instead of my coworkers or reading, and once they're done I have a short questionnaire to fill out about whether I think they're a good candidate.
They sit there quietly watching and listening to me handle calls, and in between we just chit chat. They usually ask some questions about the calls they heard me take or the job in general (they all seem to ask what the craziest call I ever took was) I usually ask a few of my own to get a feel for them. I tell them stories about the job, crack some jokes, I point out a couple things that I think are neat (like the document we have with information about what we're supposed to do if we get a call about a loose emu- it happens more often than you'd think)
Then after they leave I have a short questionnaire to fill out about if I think they're a good candidate or not.
They sit with a call-taker for about 30-45 minutes listening to 911 calls coming in, then go sit with a dispatcher for about the same amount of time to listen to calls being given out over the radio the the field units, then there's a short, pretty informal interview with the on-duty supervisors and/or someone from our training department.
They're not getting trained, they're not expected to retain any of the information or understand everything, and they're certainly not expected to be able to do the job after sitting with me. It's pretty much all about vibes. Do they like the vibe of the workplace, and do we like their vibe as a potential coworker.
Fuck me dead i'm literally just saying i can see why some people would object to the scenario, i don't need your railing manifesto misdirected at me.
I don't expect it, but it is something that good employers do. When you are taking people's time for a business purpose (i.e., having them answer questions to inform you about whether they want to hire them), the business should pay. It's an initial sign of respect to someone you may soon be asking to trust that you as a business are a good place to invest their working life and aren't going to try to steal your time and labor.
I don't know what sort of fantasy land you live in, but I've never heard of anywhere paying someone for a job interview.
Oh, well if you haven't heard of it, it must not exist. I'm apologize for knowing something you didn't and offending you by saying it's good.
Even that article is talking about it like it's some weird new idea that's "gaining traction" (reading between the lines means that this is an idea that doesn't have traction.)
It's also written by some LinkedIn "editor," so basically some chud whose job is to produce blog spam about the job market.
And the only two examples he could offer are some non profit in Toronto, and another based in the UK that I don't think even exists anymore as of a year later.
And his poll reports 5% of 3000-some responses saying this is a thing, that's gonna have some major biases because the only people who are even gonna see this poll are the kinds of weirdos who give a shit what this LinkedIn idiot says, and that sample live reflects a miniscule fraction of a percent that really can't be interpreted as a all representative of the millions of people who have had job interviews. I can't see the actual wording of how he phrased it's because I'm not gonna install the LinkedIn app, but he could also have skewed the question in a way that would include stuff like getting compensated for travel expenses to attend an interview, which is something you might reasonably expect in some cases.
Besides that and a few people like you around the internet, I really can't see anywhere saying that this is even remotely a thing, it's something that a handful of employers might do but they're a statistical anomaly.
Or they're a pyramid scheme offering you a $50 gift card to show up and "interview" to sell steak knives.
Once again, I apologize that I seem to have on offended you by knowing about a thing you did not and describing it as "not expected" (i.e., uncommon) but a thing good companies do. I'm sorry you think this only exists in a "fantasy land" and that you believe only a "chud" (look up what that actually refers to) would write about a worker-friendly practice gaining traction. I can easily see why this thing that has nothing to do with you personally would trigger such an emotional response.
If they just called it an interview would you still expect to get paid? 1 to 2 hours is pretty much the min for interviews in my field. But maybe that is very long in yours?
You must be 15 and never had a job if you don't understand that shadowing is not working for free.
You should test calling it an interview and not giving details. See if it changes the ghosting percent. My guess is that for most people, a job at 911 is a last resort. Many have heard how tough it is emotionally. So they probably got another offer by then and just took it.
A lot of things vary from one agency to another, but where I work I don't think most people would consider this a last resort job. Most of us are here either because this is what we want to do or because it's a good career builder towards other public safety/law enforcement type jobs.
For my part, if I have to work, I think this is about as good as it gets for me. I like the hours, the pay isn't amazing but it's livable, benefits are solid, and it's interesting and satisfying work.
It's also not the quickest hiring process since they usually wait until they have a few people to run a training class, it's been a few years now but I believe I did my aptitude test and interview in mid August (same day because they were doing a hiring event, sometimes they have to get scheduled separately) did my job shadow a week or two later with another short interview, got my conditional offer around mid September, had to do a drug, hearing, and vision test and a psych eval, and class started in about mid-late October, so about 2 months start to finish.
I have a friend who tested at the same time as me and got picked up for the next class they ran, so it was a couple extra months for him.
And some other agencies have extra steps in the process. More rounds of interviews, really in-depth background checks with interviews with the sheriff and a polygraph test and such (thankfully the agency I work for isn't like that since polygraphs are bullshit)
No not ideal for someone who really needs a job ASAP.
I have friend who works for 911. And I agree that the people who do the job don't consider it a last resort. But of the people who "apply" for the job, I suspect many do simply because of the reputation for impacting a person's mental health. But the rest of what you said gives me another potential cause. Drug testing. It possible some didn't read the application in full or misunderstood some of the ongoing testing that happens as part of the job. The first interview probably enlightened some of them on the subject. That may cause them second thoughts after scheduling the shadow. I would expect it to be even more the case if the scheduling of the shadow happens the same day as the first round of interviews. But many people will see scheduling the shadow as nothing to lose, and delay deciding if they really want to go foreward until the last minute.
possible they found another job, which happens all the time, and some Do cherry pick, maybe i choose this job, but i will just wait for the other jobs interview or something else comes up. or they chose and apply to this job as a backup until one comes up with a better offer.
I'm sure that's probably the case, but that's kind of my point.
Even if I landed another, better, job between my initial interview and my job shadow, I probably would have still shown up for the shadow because when else are you going to get a chance to peek behind the curtain like that?
I may not have pursued it any further from that, but to me being able to just show up and listen to 911 calls being handled for a bit would be too cool of an opportunity to pass up. I'm pretty sure I would have jumped at the opportunity to do that even if I wasn't trying to get hired.
But again, I'm biased, I work here and like my job so of course I think it's kind of neat.
its not like employers, dont keep track of flakers anyways, at least thier software will automatically deny people, they either denied, or flake on contacting the applicants.