That sounds nice but I don't think that's exactly the case in practice. There are often people who the state defends at the expense of others, who will never realistically receive any kind of justice from the state. I think things are also generally much better when these people are scared.

I'm not trying to advocate for violence against anyone specific but sometimes I think it's best when people stand up for themselves (and the people) to show that they're willing to enact some kind of justice in a corrupt system. Thinking of vigilantes in general as immoral and barbaric while thinking "democracy" alone can help you just plays into the hands of those who wish to exploit you imo.

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[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Change generally comes about from mass mobilization. The French have gotten more concessions from the government and the rich through mass strikes than Americans ever have firing guns. I'm not naiive to the idea that it's all purely 100% peaceful protest, but one man with a gun rarely makes a significant change in the overall direction compared to hundreds of thousands of people turning out and threatening the economy.

And that's the thing, the state generally maintains a monopoly on violence against small groups, it's near impossible for them to threaten violence against the population as a whole without creating a totalitarian state.

At the end of the day guns aren't going to be what stops injustice, convincing enough people that the injustice is intolerable is.

[–] Grerkol@leminal.space 0 points 4 days ago

That's a quite reasonable response, but I will say that no actual revolution is likely gonna not involve a lot of violence. And yeah... protests are almost always gonna come at the very least with the threat of violence (for a reason). Plus, figures who do something violent that many see as ultimately justified can create awareness that could lead to more pressure on elites.

I just don't think it's productive to condemn violence in general. I don't think violence not done by the state is in itself bad. Obviously a lone wolf going after random people they think deserve it isn't gonna directly enact real change, but going on about how peaceful you are seems counterproductive.

Mass mobilisation and vigilante justice aren't mutually exclusive, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

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