this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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Nah, fuck that. Patriotism is just nationalism light.
I had a pledge that I would buy a Union-made American Flag and plant it firmly in my lawn if two things happened (1) Harris was elected President, and (2) Trump served any prison time.
Nationalism fuels fascism, but I think patriotism can be a healthy pride; sort of like how one distinguishes confidence from arrogance.
Ultimately patriotism is a neutral term and is decided upon whether you agree with your national identity in both where your nation is, and where it is heading. I naturally don't agree with either at present, and so I'm not patriotic. Some are patriotic for the wrong reasons. If we get back to our roots, then I will perhaps one day have pride in being an American again.
You mean racism, sexism, and exploitation? Because that’s what our roots are.
O, let America be America again— The land that never has been yet— And yet must be—the land where every man is free.
I think genuine patriotism is a bit more than what you describe. Your lack of pride in being an American is motivated by a desire for an America that is worthy of pride. To me that is still patriotism in essence even if outwardly it seems like the opposite.
Someone tried to wipe out the Jews, so nationalism for a Jewish state must be healthy too, right?
Or maybe nationalism is just a tool to manipulate people and make them ignorant of the problems in a government. Fatah is incredibly corrupt but you don't seem to care about that because you believe in some nationalistic narrative. There would already be a Palestinian state if there was strong leadership. But using narratives about historical humiliation, misogyny, hatred of other ethnic groups, reclaiming a glorious past (all hallmarks of fascist manipulation) means people are less likely to demand better leadership and corrupt governments can persist.
Exactly. It's the gateway drug to fascism.
Fuck it all.
Is there anything that you don't think is a gateway drug to fascism?
Interesting. Color me skeptical, but I've been around for a minute, and that smacks of bait.
It's not bait, it's criticism
No, it simply is not.
It's a loaded, low-effort question that puts the onus on your target and required nothing from you at all.
That said, if it wasn't in bad faith, I welcome you to try again. Otherwise, I can easily find better things to do than waste ^more^ time on trolls, friendo.
You can dance in circles all you want, it's not going to change anything. You're taking concepts that have nothing to do with fascism and attributing them to it regardless. Saying patriotism a gateway drug to fascism is like saying “community is a gateway drug to cults.” Just because both involve belonging and loyalty doesn’t mean one inevitably leads to the other. It’s the distortion, not the foundation, that creates danger.
Trying to twist something that's normal, healthy, and even necessary like patriotism or community into something toxic, shows that you're disingenuous, which is ironic considering your spiel here. Just because you say something is poisonous that doesn't that it is.
Oh, you silly frothy fuckwit. I simply called out your bullshit "question", and was clearly accurate in presuming it was, in fact, bait.
Your attempts to weaponize the word salad sloshing around in that soggy head aren't doing you any favors, so how about this:
Read a fucking book that isn't Mein Kampf.
Don't forget to breathe. (optional)
Bye, Felisha.
BTW, for those playing along at home, "community" is essential. "Patriotism" is not. Don't suffer these idiots. Call them out, every time. You are not alone, friends. We got this. ✊🏼
So let me get this straight. You made a stupid claim, got criticized for it, tried to beat around the push, and when you got called out, you threw a temper tantrum? I'm not surprised, but it goes to show that people like you lack the ability to defend your views on their own merits. But hey, why stand by your beliefs when you could just cope by appealing to the masses (nobody is reading this thread btw)...
I have to disagree. Without at least a little pride or the want to have pride in where we come from, what incentive is there to do things like cataloging history or preserving cultures and languages. I don't think all cultures are objectively or subjectively good by any stretch, but their information, knowledge, and ritual is 100% worth cataloging and knowing, if anything just to preserve knowledge of what not to do.
For example, the confederate south. Is it worth keeping up monuments and statues honoring the traitors? Absolutely not. Is it worth keeping knowledge of what happened so that we might not repeat it? Absolutely. Without a healthy amount of patriotism, in this case the hope that where we come from can improve, why wouldn't we just wipe away that history and pretend it didn't happen? That's a major line where it switches from patriotism to nationalism.
But mostly it's just the want to improve where you're from that's why I believe you should have a healthy amount of patriotism. Without it, why bother doing anything at all, from protesting to ~~rioting~~ violent encouragement to do something different.
Anyways, hope that what my overly caffeinated brain wrote down makes sense
Why pride if interest is more than enough? A nation is inherently an invention. It creates a story why it came to be and why all the different cultures in it's territory are now "the people". I don't think you need that to be happy about where you live and/or to improve. It is also not needed to document history.
I really don't get your point. I consider myself to be an anarcho-communist and will start a volunteer year at an archaeoligical institution to see if I want to study it at a university.
You don't need to love your country to learn about it.
So I can't be proud of being from my country? City? Neighborhood? I don't think it's so black and white unless you have another term to describe being happy about where you're from.
Just be happy about where you are from.
How do you appropriately label that feeling of being happy you are where you are from?
And nationalism is bad, because? Nationalism when taken to the extreme can be bad because it's extreme, but there's nothing inherently wrong with nationalism.
If you cannot see, why the ideology that brought us both World Wars, Russias war against Ukraine and so many more modern conflicts, was the base of colonialism and neo-colonialism, imperialism, 20th century slavery, fascism, zionism and that let us buold borders where thousands die every year, you are lost.
This is just a piss poor understanding of history, nationalism, and geopolitics.
Let's take the Ukraine war as an example. Russia is not a nation state, it's an empire. Empires are usually multiethnic, hierarchical, and expansionist, ruling over diverse peoples through centralized authority and often unequal legal or political status. Ukraine, on the other hand, is a nation state because it's organized around a shared national identity that is defined by common language, culture, or ethnicity, and it treats all of its citizens as equals under the law. This war is basically between Russian imperialists who want to expand the empire and Ukrainian nationalists who want to defend their nation.
Using your flawed logic, Ukrainians are bad people because they believe in and are actively defending an ideology that you falsely attribute to everything bad to has ever happened in the world and in history. That's just nonsense.
What you just described, this "mild nationalism?" There's a word for that: patriotism. Nationalism is extreme patriotism.
Nationalism: an ideology that elevates one nation or nationality above all others and that places primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations, nationalities, or supranational groups
-Merriam-Webster Dictionary
And when nationalism becomes even more extreme, it becomes chauvinism or jingoism.
Chauvinism: undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged; excessive or blind patriotism; an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex
Jingoism: extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy
When Hitler promised to build a wall around Germany to keep immigrants from diluting German culture during his campaign, that was nationalism. American isolationists were/are nationalists.
The Republican Party in the 90s and 2000s was a nationalist party bordering on chauvinism. The party of Trump is a jingoist party that hits every definition of chauvinism at the same time.
This is just false. Nationalism is just the idea that a nation should be sovereign. The Meriam Webster definition you cited is just a contemporary definition, the original definition is the second one listed here:
Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism
Nationalism isn't a more extreme version of patriotism. Nationalism describes an ideology while patriotism describes a particular set of emotions. The two could overlap, but they're not the same thing at different points of a spectrum.
Can I ask what your definition of "fascism" is?
That was a typo, I meant to say nationalism. There's definitely a lot inherently wrong with fascism
Hell of a typo, but fair enough.
I was thinking about another comment I wanted to reply to while typing that one and my brain just mixed the two.
Nationalism is for loser with a shit life. When you never did anything on your own, you need to preserve self esteem and you start takingbpride in things that was never in your control, like the country you're born or the color of your skin
A Kurd wanting their people to have self determination and independence is a Kurdish nationalist. Calling someone like that a loser is demonstration of your ignorance.