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stop “going through the motions,” then? do something?? anything!????
idk tbh anytime i see someone act as surprised as you are at this point it’s someone who believed, strongly, in the noble lies fed to us. i don’t mean to judge you pointedly, but knowing you’re an air force vet… doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in the counterpoint to that opinion.
i came from a family with a lot of military brats so im confident in saying 99% of people who enlist are either doing so out of economic desperation (aka coercion) or they’re dumb enough to believe the shit the recruiters/propoganda/government spew. if i offend… that’s fine. i have respect for the trauma, both physical and mental, that vets have gone through but i think you guys aren’t just cogs in a machine and are morally culpable for what you’re involved in doing. i respect the people on an individual basis, but spit on the org as a whole.
anyway idk not to babble on and on but point being maybe the euros are right when they say none of us have the balls to do what needs to be done. people won’t even say what needs to be said because they fear losing their jobs and careers due to corporate, dystopic surveillance of their every word. it’s the most milquetoast acceptance of literal fascism in history and your comment and the behavior you espouse is exactly why they’re able to do it.
don’t get me wrong, i’m not casting stones. i am not without sin either. i’m sitting here shitposting on the internet instead of marching. i’m also part of the problem; but it’s time we start calling it out instead of getting offended at the notion we are just letting it happen.
in this spirit i’ll be the first to say. fuck ice. i won’t self-police myself for thought crime anymore. the first chance i get to kill an ice agent im taking, and every true fucking patriot should feel the same. it’s time to water the tree of liberty, man.
I see where you're at. I take no offense. I definitely could be doing more. I can't work either, so it isn't like I don't have the time. Physical issues are my only real hold back. My enlistment was fear of being trapped in an abusive home, as well as feeling like high school didn't offer enough of an education to prepare me. We both have the luxury of doing what we're doing.
However, I offer a few counter points.
What does killing 1 ICE "officer" accomplish? How does that affect change in the right direction? Does this cause others to do the same and follow suit?
We need more that I don't think we're at the point of accomplishing yet. We need a full on civil war. One that I'm not sure how we get to kick off, all at the same time, all across the nation, without it fizzling out quickly.
The problem then comes in how to coordinate that. How do we communicate, nation wide, in a way that is not vulnerable to monitoring and disruption by the very place we're trying to change? How do we coordinate arming and supplies? How do we coordinate movements and operations?
We can't stop at just POtuS either. 99% of it needs to go. Dem leadership has been largely sitting on the bloody nubs that they try to "reach across the aisle" with. SCOTUS and most all other courts are compromised. Plus the billionaires, the behind the scenes assholes, and even state and local governments. It all needs a clean sweep.
We have too comfortable of a life. We're too complacent. We were too far removed from the fascism that spilled over in Europe. We were too padded. It didn't really hit us, in either world war, back here. Our troops came back home and went back to regular life as usual. We had a civil war, but we didn't punish any of the perpetrators. That led us right back where we're at. At the time though, you could survive on your own. Support a family off of the land. There wasn't much of an infrastructure. There was no pain to be felt by the general populace (loss of life aside).
I do think we'll get to full on armed conflict. I feel as though mid terms will be the kicker. I just don't know if armed conflict is where we're at yet. Not that I don't think we should be. It's that the general populace is too comfortable. We, apparently, need our lives to hurt more. To be affected more. Is it sad? Absolutely. Is it very much against everything that the founding fathers envisioned, especially when drafting up the 2nd? Absolutely. They would be completely disgusted with all of us. Myself included.
The fix is not killing ICE officers.
The civil rights movements of the 60s, Jim Crow, etc, won by being willing to be beaten. By voluntarily entering a cafe and sitting there waiting to be served like a human being, meanwhile being willing to be called names, dropped food and drinks onto them, burnt with cigarettes, abused.
That willingness and perseverance in wanting to be recognised as the human beings they are awoke the rest of the population.
Pacifist demonstrations and matches are a way to achieve that. They are displays for your fellow colleagues, not for the government you want to depose. Make clear that they are pacifist. Prepare and inform the people going. Sit down if you are charged. Stop violent people there. Etc. Make obvious that the fascist are fascists that way and say and invigorate people to your side.
The first act that started the Tunisian "Arab Spring" was just one street seller being killed by the police.
There is no "correct" spark. And nobody knows what will spark a war until it has happened.
Maybe some guy that gets shot by ICE, maybe some guy that kills an ICE thug, maybe something else.
I agree with most everything you said here, it's a good analysis. Sorry for being a bit of a reactionary this morning. Not sure why I was on such a shit-slinging vibe earlier but I'm willing to own up to it.
I would see a civil war, or something like it, as the first "real," and rational opportunity for an individual to kill an ICE agent. In my mind, doing so as a sort of lonewolf is so absurdly stupid as to not be considerably but I understand that's probably not a reasonable take these days anymore when it comes to discourse in the commons. Therein is the sociopolitical paradox you mentioned about what actually sparks the powderkeg. In short, I think we're saying about the same thing in principle, I'm just an edgelord before noon I guess lmao.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, I always appreciate discourse. Meet all sorts of cool people on lemmy. Hope life has more in store for you, for all of us. Good luck!
Absolutely no shade my friend. I am absolutely as pissed off as you are. I really wish it would make a difference. Many of us do. It just isn't quite there yet. The stew is close, we just need the vegetables to get ready.
I love the discourse as well. We don't get a feel for everyone's feelings towards things when we don't. Others may even bring up things we hadn't thought about, or an angle we didn't see.
Good luck to you as well!
I find the bit about believing the lies we're fed as somewhat naive. We're all on a journey, and everyone starts in a different place, with unique foundations.
My current opinions vary wildly from those held 20 years ago. Change is a good thing, and I think it should be expected as the norm.
If you want to be effective at changing the system, killing random ICE Nazis won’t do it. Everyone here is advocating peaceful protest, but that also won’t do it - or at least, not by itself.
Instead, consider direct action - sabotage of the means of production that prop up the fascist state.
Take a listen to Rev Left’s interview with Palestine Action to learn what I’m talking about: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/size/5/?search=Palestine+action