Yep. We don’t teach kids math so they can learn to do math. We do it so they can develop an intuition for abstract reasoning.

Also to not fall for pitifully obvious scams.

Writing essays, for instance, helps one structure their thoughts and form with them a narrative. It's actually really concerning that even that is being delegated to ChatGPT, as if people weren't ignorant and mentally incompetent enough already. 😭

Back in high school in the 70s, I had a long-haired subversive English teacher, never wore a tie, bell bottoms, etc. He was a great teacher, and I made sure to take one of his English classes in grades 10/11/12, including Shakespeare 1 and 2.

He had a unique, very Socratic teaching style, that required us to make choices, and then defend them, and more importantly, recognize when someone else's idea is better, and put ego aside to embrace the better concept. After three years of that class, I could write, communicate, and debate effectively, far beyond my years.

Years later, I started listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio, and wondered why I wasn't being seduced by his rhetoric, like so many of his listeners. I realized it was because I had good Critical Thinking Skills, and wasn't buying his bullshit.

When I asked myself how I got those skills, I realized that it was entirely due to Mr. Clark, and I loved him all the more for it. He was teaching English and Shakespeare, but he had an ulterior motive, and used those subjects to actually teach Critical Thinking Skills, and give us the confidence to defend our positions. He knew what he was doing, but NOBODY else did, including the school system, whose curriculum he gleefully subverted.

I tried to look him up, but he had died a few years earlier. I wish I could have told him that I was on to him, and he gave me the most important educational gift of my life.

Thanks, Mr. Clark, you were the greatest teacher of my life, and the lives of many others.

The real learning was the learning we did along the way.

In theory, partly.

In practice, it's more of a check the box thing for teachers.

Most teachers, franky, suck. I say this as someone with family in that world, and having been a technical instructor.

Being effective is not easy, throw an awful bureacracy on top and even good teachers will suck, because they can't fight two battles simultaneously.

Having watched the US educational system go to shit over decades because of the growth of the admin really tells the story. My first university tripled their admin since I went there, yet the student body has grown only incrementally. The stories I hear from family attending - the bullshit from admin is astounding.

When I started uni, there was a special "how to learn" class that everyone took on their first semester. It was just a refresh of how to cite sources, fact check, take efficient notes, and proper time management. Absolutely would have failed without it since I was one of those kids that breezed through highschool without much effort.

Yes and No. School really lacks a sort of "general knowledge" class, to get a general overview of lots of varied things.

It's always been incredibly strange to me how you're supposed to pick your career after high school (more or less) when you usually know about less than 10% of the jobs that exist.

It's also important for the induction of critical thinking - children need to be exposed to a large variety of information and social context to form a sharp mind.

Additionally, we don’t encourage kids to read books so they can become better at communicating. We push them to read so that they can have something worth communicating. You need words, concepts, and experiences, not just the ability to form empty sentences.

college too. i can't remember most of the specifics I've learned, but I could jump back into any topic and get "fluent" quickly again

DING!

One point to Aussiemandeus

Unless your educational system inhibits creativity and encourages memorization without understanding.

Thats one of many benefits. The content itself is still useful. I've long since forgotten my highschool advanced maths content, but I know how to think about rate of change and probabilities and normal distributions, etc. My current job is also science based and I often need to explain things to lay service users. It's remarkable sometimes how far back to basic concepts I need to go to help them understand. Even colleagues who didn't learn certain aspects of match or physics up to high school struggle more than necessary.

I think even the forgotten material has been benefitting you all along.

I also think undergraduate degrees are mostly to teach good working habits and learning habits. Though not everyone succeeds at learning those things.

If there's one thing my school has never even tried to teach me it's how to learn effectively.

I "learned" a lot of falsehoods in history and civics classes that was just american exceptionalism.

That's literally what they told us back when I still studied Latin

They did a shit job with me and my colleagues, I can assure you that.

I'd like to mention learning to handle abstract concepts in particular. This is why "hard" science graduates can do good in software engineering, because it also relies on juggling with a shitload of abstractions. I know someone who's really good at solving practical and communication problems in daily life, but they didn't finish highschool, and as soon as the discussion becomes abstract, their brain just blanks.

Wait till you realize that the point of homework is delayed-gratification, prioritization, and self-reliance.

My experience in school made me oppose authoritarianism... fucking shitty teachers and school admin, always biased againt me because I'm "foreign" and therefore always presumed to be the troublemaker.