In the long run, using mice to test human medicines will result in selection pressure for humans whose physiology more and more closely resembles mice.
Showerthoughts
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
- Both “200” and “160” are 2 minutes in microwave math
- When you’re a kid, you don’t realize you’re also watching your mom and dad grow up.
- More dreams have been destroyed by alarm clocks than anything else
Rules
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- No politics
- If your topic is in a grey area, please phrase it to emphasize the fascinating aspects, not the dramatic aspects. You can do this by avoiding overly politicized terms such as "capitalism" and "communism". If you must make comparisons, you can say something is different without saying something is better/worse.
- A good place for politics is c/politicaldiscussion
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If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.
they use a lot of other things… including living human cancer cells in a petri dish
I believe the vast majority of cultivated human cells are cancerous cells anyway.
when researching cancer drugs, yeah
So we will become cancer
Maybe the real cancer is the friends we made along the way
well no, they kill cancer in petri dishes
It was a joke about selection pressure.
The reality is that even if there was a magic bullet for cancer, all cancer, it would only extend lives a few years.
i love this idea let's become mice
they are widely known to be the smartest creatures on earth, followed by dolphins, and then us
No, we will become monke
Mice live 9 months in the wild, and have a resting heart rate of 500-700 bpm. That's a lot of cardio.
(not mice), but Fancy Rats are extremely susceptible to tumors. It sucks. More rats I've owned have died of either cancer or respiratory illnesses than old age.
Bonus shot of my boy Finn:
I love him
He has a kind face.
You say that but he always wears a leather jacket and carries a flickknife with him when he goes outside!!
I can fix him
so does my mom.
Cancer isn’t one thing.
The whole concept of “curing cancer” is such a trope. Cancer is a condition, and it annoys the fuck out of me that people treat it as one disease like measles or the flu.
Just like with antibiotics. When Penicilin was originally tested, they happened to test it on just the right animals. One kind of standard lab animals would have just died from that stuff.
Or it was too cheap to duplicate so there was no profit in it…
Cheap to duplicate is great for them. That means larger profit margins.
There’s more profit in causing and treating cancer than curing it. Can’t weaken those revenue streams just so some poor people can go on living. If they were worth saving then they wouldn’t have been born better.
Dead people make short term profit. Alive people make long term profit.
I mean, there are like dozens of different types of cancers, so we probably have missed some of them.
Or it worked too well on mice and stopped regular cells from dividing.
We know a bunch of ways to kill cancer cells. Unfortunately, we usually want to avoid killing the non-cancerous ones, which is considerably harder to do.
reminds me of trump's suggestion of using bleach to treat people with covid
We warned the stupids off doing that way too quick if you ask me.
Now now, you can't be picky! And really with the outcome being the same, there's no reason to bicker.
There are preventative measures but they’re all based on the rich not poisoning everyone for profit.
The crazy thing is we actually do have things that work in humans but not in mice. Mice are omnivores and are very different in terms of optimal energy state. They tend to run in glucose more easily than on fat and their whole biology is built to be small and fast, with short life spans.
Checking how DNA repair works in an animal which lives for maybe 2 years is great for understanding DNA repair in short lived organisms, but we have tk repair damage for 50 times as long. It is just so much more complex and requires such different tools when you switch from maybe 2 years to maybe 80 years, it really isn't sane to assume it will all carry over.
Now for an accute toxin, say tobacco, sure, some things work just fine. There is not a huge difference between humans and mice when subjected to cyanide or arsenic. Being crushed by a falling piano is going to kill both of us. But a chronic poison? That will take decades to kill? That is very different. We can shed cells in a different way to how they can. We have more mass to store things. We have more energy storage. We have bigger kidneys with more opportunities for filtering. We are different.
When we enter ketosis we have some fairly significant cancer responses. When we maintain fasting for 5+ days we have a fairly large bump in autophagy, a state where the body kills off and recycles damaged cells. This state can cause some types of cancer to be more obvious to our immune systems and allow the tumor to be attacked. In some cases otherwise inoperable tumors can be removed after shrinking them through fasting. This does not replicate in mice. So yes, some treatments (not cures because that doesn't really apply) do work in humans and not in mice.
Also who is out there making sure all of these incredible discoveries are accessible to mice more broadly, outside the labs?
This IS happening, right?
