this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2025
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Apparently a page from an internal IBM training manual. Some further attempts at source it

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[–] ruuster13@lemmy.zip 160 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And when computers make all management decisions, let us not forget that managers told them to do so, lest we forget whom to hold accountable.

[–] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You know shit only flows downhill right?

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 102 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think what they meant is nobody in management cares if someone wants to hold them accountable

Bit it's a nice picture, yeah

[–] scathliath@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I don't know, they all sure hate Luigi for some reason.

[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 5 points 22 hours ago

Probably not fans of Nintendo or something

[–] Salvo@aussie.zone 104 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Managers aren’t being held accountable for their management decisions either.

“Oh, I sacked our entire workforce and sold all the company assets, so the figures will look amazing this month.”

“Oh, the figures are down this month, a golden handshake!? Thank you very much.”

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Most industries management fails upward. Definitely true in Pharma.

There are CEOs with a 20 year string of development failures, but they bring "vast experience".

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[–] xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 79 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ah, from back when people still had critical thinking faculties in good working order.

[–] raman_klogius@ani.social 48 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Back when tech is still dominated by hippies and not fascists.

[–] GrabtharsHammer@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 1 day ago

At the time the computers were kinda newfangled and they tolerated some hippies over there in research.

The business part, well, yeah.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 1 day ago

That's not how you would describe IBM at any point in its existence.

[–] thinkercharmercoderfarmer@slrpnk.net 25 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

This is as good an excuse as any to break out the ol' IBM corporate songbook

Tech has always been suits at the top, hippies at best an annoying necessity because they know how to actually operate the machine.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"Back in the day", IBM was all suits the entire way up and down the ladder. They were considered the company for 1960/70s button down dress code.

The hippie types were at MIT hacking on DEC machines.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

IBM in 1979 was the polar opposite of hippie or liberal. You're thinking of later, younger outfits, Pirates of Silicon Valley types. IBM was white shirt, black tie, solidly stuck in their ways.

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[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 58 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Reminds me of Woz’s old saying “Never trust a computer you can’t throw out a window.”

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That became easier with phones huh.

[–] lauha@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yes, really easy to throw cloud out the window

[–] msage@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago

With clouds it's easy, they are already outside the windows.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 42 points 1 day ago

Executives today:

This means if we put AI somewhere in our decision making, we can no longer be held accountable.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 38 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Isn't that exactly why they do use them for management decisions?

[–] InputZero@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yup!

"I'm sorry but your contact is terminated because our management software designated your position as redundant and unnecessary. It wasn't our decision to let you go, but it was our decision to begin using that software and it was our decision to program it to try to fire as many employees as possible, but it's not our decision and therefore we can't be held responsible. Goodbye."

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[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 32 points 1 day ago

Since when are managers held accountable? Is this new?

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 21 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

That's the neat thing, you can deny accountability by blaming the computer's decision

[–] InnerScientist@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

A COMPUTER CAN NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

THEREFORE A COMPUTER MUST ~~NEVER~~ MAKE ~~A~~ MANAGEMENT DECISIONs

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[–] sundray@lemmus.org 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I can only assume the very next slide said, "But having a computer make battlefield targeting decisions is A-OK!" /s

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

It's just a little war crimes, it's ok it's ok.

[–] kingofras@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

promptly

Very meta

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Let's be honest though, most managers, maybe ~60% could be replaced by AI. If you want evidence, think of anyone who goes to meetings, and those who go to meetings all day element 90% of meetings, at minimal. Those jobs shouldn't exist. They are what people like Bezos/Musk believe should not exist.

Now, how does one get from being nothing, and never being in meetings to being someone making money... You can't, unless you know someone. AI is an "American Dream" killer

Well that’s the exact reason these people are so horny for AI.

https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-era-of-the-business-idiot/

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[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 14 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

That's why board executives and business are so excited about it

[–] Saarth@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

They can finally get rid of McKinsey and blame it on cheaper and faster trendy butthole logo of the month.

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[–] undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It's not my fault

~~I was just following orders~~

~~It's just company policy~~

It's just a misstep in the algorithm

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I'm sorry the computer said layoffs so... Get fucked.

[–] EightLeggedFreak@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago

Ai says you're not a citizen. Deported.

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

TBF Management can barely make any management decisions either...

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[–] Heikki2@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

As a US citizen, this logic need to be applied to corperations. The C_Os make all the decisions for the company, the Campany should not be held as responsible for the shitty actions of its Board. The Board should be held accountable for the companies actions be required to served by all the C_Os. I say served, I mean fines and prison time ,in all cases, as a fine is paid personally by the person and time is served aslo bu the person.

I know fine are just a temporary for "legal fo .a price" fine should be paid to hut them so Retirement accounts are taken, future earning are taken, income from salary+bonus at time of infraction are taken, and close loops of off shore accounts

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[–] saltnotsugar@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.

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[–] FishFace@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago

This is sad, not humorous

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The computer can't be held accountable, but the programmer and operator can.

I could go on a whole thing about mission rules and command decisions here, but I'm sick of typing for the day.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

So when is Musk getting held accountable for making a literal US funded Nazi waifu bot

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[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 hours ago

A complete one-eighty nowadays..."As a highly paid "business" exec I have no ideas...computer, tell me what to do."

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

"No networked computers!" Colonial fleet high command standing orders

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[–] criss_cross@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Sorry can’t hear you as AI brrs over hiring applications and performance reviews

[–] borth@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

But a computer works for "free" so "not being held accountable" is even better!!

[–] MalReynolds@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Again, weapons without human in the loop needs to be against the Geneva convention, yesterday. Or articles of war , something. This is a tractable problem, that needs attention, now, It will not end well and can actually be (mostly, by honorable armies) fixed.

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[–] onnekas@sopuli.xyz 4 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

I generally agree.

Imagine however, that a machine objectively makes the better decisions than any person. Should we then still trust the humans decision just to have someone who is accountable?

What is the worth of having someone who is accountable anyway? Isn't accountability just an incentive for humans to not just fuck things up? It's also nice for pointing fingers if things go bad - but is there actually any value in that?

Additionally: there is always a person who either made the machine or deployed the machine. IMO the people who deploy a machine and decide that this machine will now be making decisions should be accountable for those actions.

[–] Maroon@lemmy.world 6 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

Imagine however, that a machine

That's hypothetical. In the real world, in the human society, the humans who are part of corporations and receiving profits by making/selling these computers must also bear the responsibility.

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