so this is a game of telephone between activists, payment cards, payment processors, and vendors.
Also TIL mastercard HQ is located in Purchase, NY.
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
so this is a game of telephone between activists, payment cards, payment processors, and vendors.
Also TIL mastercard HQ is located in Purchase, NY.
My view is that Valve is the most likely to be honest about who is responsible here, both because they’re not responsible for this shit show no matter what the answer is and because they have a monetary interest in restarting sales.
Valves statement also matches with the claims of Itch.io, Stripe, and what Collective Shout themselves have claimed. So we've got two different claims, on one side are Visa and Mastercard, and on the other we've got literally everyone else. I feel pretty confident about which one is a load of bullshit.
It's also worth noting that Visa ~~and Mastercard~~ are playing semantic games with their statements. Nobody ever claimed they were "refusing legal transactions", rather what they're doing is threatening to stop working with any business that doesn't implement censorship that they're happy with. It's a subtle but important difference and they've never denied that's what they're doing.
Edit: rereading Mastercards statement they are claiming they don't restrict how businesses operate (although they do weasel around a little bit about illegal content), although Visa still hasn't denied that. They may also be playing games with that statement because porn is illegal in some countries that Mastercard operates in so they may be trying to claim porn is an illegal transaction despite businesses not selling it in the countries it's illegal in.
Edit 2: It just occurred to me this could also be about the UK and some US states new (and horrible) porn ID laws. I'm not aware of Valve doing anything to implement the strict age verification those laws are requiring for sites that distribute porn, and Visa/Mastercard could be trying to argue that without that in place any porn games Valve sells are "illegal transactions". In theory Steam does have age gating, but it's the same "are you over 18?" easily bypassed check that porn sites have always used.
Isn't owning a credit card age gating anyway? I don't think you can legally own a credit card in the UK.
(Edit: Oops I mean until you're 18.)
You would think, but I believe the law(s) require verification of a photo ID. I haven't looked too closely into the UK one, but the way the laws are written for a couple of the US states a credit card doesn't meet the requirements. There's also the fact that many of the preview images and videos for porn games on Steam show nudity and/or sex and you can access those without needing to purchase the game (just the birthday question to "verify" your age).
Edit: also steam gift cards are a thing, so you can purchase without using a credit card technically.
Their condition (both via and mastercard) include stuff which, when you read it attentively, boils down to "we only prevent illegal things. And stuff we deem bad.".
It's not even a game of telephone or anything, they have their conditions that says "yes we did" and their PR that says "we probably didn't". They could be playing alone and still losing this one.
American Payment Processors really need more competition. They can not be trusted to act in a free market sense and not drift into a chaindog for political ideas.
It feels to me like payment processing has a similar function to physical currency. Like all of those security features on the bills are used to ensure the transaction is trusted.
Point being, I've long thought that payment processors are essentially doing a job that should be done by the government.
There are strange gaps where physical services have digital analogues but are completely ignored by the government.
I don't understand why the treasury doesn't process payments or why the post office doesn't issue email addresses, for another example.
Anyways, back to the point, physical currency specifically says that it is valid for all debts. If they applied the same logic to payment processing, then this would never happen.
Probably because government and the people in charge of government are largely tech illiterate and being literate or seeking policy advice from literate people isn't expected.
Postal banking is a thing in some places.
I'm not sure I want the government running those services. Like a basic one, sure, but for handling credit cards and general banking services? Nah, I don't want the Trump administration having direct access to my purchases.
I don't see any reason to trust the credit industry more than the government, though.
The main reason is that the credit industry isn't in the business of running an intelligence service or part of law enforcement. That said, what they are connected to is almost the same as an intelligence service, that being the advertising industry, and there's literally nothing stopping them from selling or even being forced to give their data to law enforcement. The only reason it doesn't happen more I'd say is just the optics of it.
Ultimately what's needed is a digital payment system that's at least somewhat anonymous, but that's an incredibly hard nut to crack. Bitcoin tried it, but largely failed to do so (and immediately got corrupted by speculators that wanted to use it as a forex instead of currency). A couple of the other crypto currencies that have come out since then have claimed to be better but I'm still incredibly skeptical that there's any real anonymity there.
Payment processing is one of those things that really should have been treated as a public utility from the start. The same way we treat water, electricity, and phone lines. But even getting the internet treated as a utility has been a losing battle thus far.
Would it be possible to build a FOSS alternative to all this?
They're trying with GNU Taler, but it's pretty much a pipe dream at this point.
Mastercard: worried about damaging brand
ALSO Mastercard: torpedos brand harder than the titan submersible implosion
Mastercard: We better not alienate our customers! Let's cave to these religious lunatics from Australia.
Mastercard: Becomes hated by gamers all over the world.
Effecting the brand?? Who in their right mine would associate them with anything but payments? That's ridiculous
Like for real, the only reason I'm associating them with these games now is because they've actively brought it into the limelight, so we can see that
I wouldn't have even thought anything of association if they hadn't done so.
But now, anytime I see an NSFW game on Steam, I'm immediately associating it with Visa and MasterCard due to the fact that the news is that they're trying to get rid of those games, which I assume is not what they wanted, but you know it's what's happening.
This is actually ruining their brand. I now associate MC and Visa with Christian oppression
They think they're more than a money pipe.
A competitor to MasterCard and Visa could show up with double their combined budget and do what they do to massively disrupt this particular industry. The average Joe would not give half a shit and continue paying for stuff with whatever card their bank gave them just like they always have.
The specific brand of payment processor a card uses is just not a thing people care about unless they have an Amex and that's essentially because places don't always take it.
The astonishingly hypocritical part:
Guess who does payment processing for OnlyFans?
Visa.
And MasterCard.
=D
All you need to verify your id is a credit card!
Then you get all the pr0n you want!
Hope you didn't borrow one from your parents!
No child has ever thought of that before!
I'd love Valve to spend their extra billions on opening a payment processor. Fuck the big 3.
Honestly, wouldn't be surprised, they have spent god knows how much to push linux to unshackle themselves from Windows and Microsoft
There's multiple steps to this sadly, including the payment gateway, processor, acquirer and this is before even Mastercard, VISA, Amex or other card companies come into the picture.
It's not impossible, but Valve would need to convince the card issuers that they are a valid processor and then also make deals with banks all over the world for GWs. Or they could just act like Stripe and own the full stack and bully their way through the fintech world.
They already support local payment processing schemes such as Bancontact, iDEAL, JCB, Pix, etc. A good chunk of their international customer base already isn't dependent on the big American payment processors.
The way towards undermining Visa/MC's power is for more governments/Central Banks to push for indigenous alternatives which abide by local regulations rather than foreign puritanism. This is already a desirable goal for most both from a geopolitical POV (reduce American control over world finance) and a financial one (VISA/MasterCard charge outrageous transaction fees).
American consumers are fucked whichever way things go though, it's not like the regime is going to make a move to break up the monopoly nor to push for less censorship in media. If Valve somehow goes through with this and makes deal with all major American banks, they'll be done just in time for the Save The Children From Pedostanic Video Games Act or whatever the fuck that will force them to purge all thought crime from their platform.
Unfortunately Taler still needs a lot of maturing, but having a distributed payment system not running on that horrendous waste of time and energy that is the block chain is promising!
Of course, because when everyone buy a game on steam the FIRST thing it comes to their mind is the credit card brand they used. What a load of bullock.
FFS I don't even remember which one of my credit card I have saved on steam.
MasterCard can go fuck themselves. Great job saving your brand
Seriously rediculous, most people don't even know if their card is Visa or Mastercard, nor do they care (because they dont know what they are or what they mean).
(This is from my experience with people i know)
I expected nothing less from them. They did pretty much the same exact thing when Japan tried confronting them after they started blocking Japanese retailers from trading internationally. I can't find the article anymore but IIRC, Japan's Prime Minister tried having an in person interview with them about it but it was cut short because he stormed out of the room after Visa tried denying everything. I don't think that the payment processors will ever take responsibility for their actions.
mastercard you are hurting your brand by doing this
They are a fucking payment processor; the only brand that matters is reliability and confidency, which they damaged now.
I kill people in GTA 5. I don't kill people in Hentai Incest Generator 3000. Yet someone prefers to see my transaction only for the first one, citing damages to "the brand".
Curiously, in our society, killing is less of a taboo than sex, especially in fiction.
Since the aughts, I feel it is a disservice we do to censor out the horror of warfare in games like Call of Duty or Medal of Honor. I haven't seen what they did with Six Days In Fallujah (by a vet of the Iraq War who experienced Fallujah and wanted to share his experience) but we'd have more respect for the gravity of war if the tragedy and immediacy of combat was properly expressed. In the Arma series, it's very easy to die, but it uses a similar engine used for training purposes.
It's our Christian values (more specifically, our Paulinian values -- he thought Christians should not have sex if they can abstain entirely¹ -- which has turned into taboos against sex without strict licenses, that has made our society super-prudish.
1. Paul actually also prohibited having additional children, the end being neigh and all. Later biblical interpreters would have to deal with the world's failure to end, and Christ's failure to return in their lifetimes.
Why doesn't valve simply restore games back then? Tell payment processors MC is OK with them (as evident by this statement) and tell them to come back with a reply from MC?
Can I still use visa or MasterCard on a dildo? And can I pay for it in cash... Dollars? Is my money accepted at the local adult bookstore?
Direct link: Mastercard rule 5.12.7 Illegal or Brand-damaging Transactions
Tweet of their attempt to deny responsibility: great opportunity to wreck their brand.
I'm so confused; I thought MC and VISA were payment processors. So when I buy a game off Steam, I have two companies handling my money?
MC and VISA are the networks. They allow communication between banks, and the entire operation is packaged up by payment processors like Stripe, Square or PayPal. So you have processors, the banks on either end (perhaps two separate ones), the network operator, and additionally any extra companies that might offer additional services for the transaction, like for fraud prevention or financing.
But what was "illegal"? I mean, if we're applying real life laws to video games, that completely removes any game where violence is portrayed, GTA, Sonic the hedgehog, animal cruelty in super Mario. That's why they are GAMES.
dumbasses. All of them.