If democrat politicians weren't so shit it wouldn't be so close in the first place
this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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Immigrants might be in camps, but at least you 3rd party/nonvoters have your sense of moral superiority!
(lemmy.world)
So true, the Democrats had a fucking easy ass win all lined up and threw it so hard. 1.6B in campaign funds and they ran on, "We are changing nothing, but at least we aren't republicans."
Everyone below the upper middle class knows the government is not working for the people. People voted for trump because he ran on change. We know he is a liar and using politically uneducated people to push the right wing agenda, but the primary message of his campaign was what people wanted. And he won.
3rd party/non-voters didn't help, but the loss is primarily on the Democrats.
I remember having arguments with these Blue MAGA muppets during the election. I kept trying to explain to them why it was insanity to pretend the economy was fine. But they were morons with a 1984 streak that would make Orwell blush, and thought they could just manifest their way to an election victory. They kept citing CPI data, saying, "but inflation adjusted wages have never been higher!" When you pointed out that inflation purposefully leaves out a lot of the volatility in prices people were reeling from, and how not all income groups experience inflation equally? They didn't want to hear it.
Remember the absolutely insulting, just disgustingly condescending term "vibession?" I do. That term alone probably cost Kamala the election. The only thing that makes people angrier than having to deal with a rotten economy is to have their leaders gaslight them and pretend nothing is wrong.
These morons didn't want to hear it. They have a three monkeys belief system. Just ignore all problems, pretend everything is fine, and just try to bluff your way to victory on election day. You point out the suicidally stupid policies that were killing the Kamala campaign, and they just acted like three year olds saying, "harumf, I guess you want Trump to win!"
This is exactly what people are referring to when they describe liberal arrogance. Criticism is unacceptable. Shut up and tow the line. Vote Blue No Matter Who (unless there's a progressive on the ticket.)
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we need to be honest with ourselves.
Being angry at republicans for blowing up the government is reasonable.
It's also reasonable to be angry at the democrats, who sat around watching them work towards blowing up the government for fifty years and being like "hurrdurr FAIRNESS!" while doing nothing to stop it.
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I'm getting tired of this back and forth. This bickering is childish and our time would be better spent drumming up positive interest for ranked choice voting.
That's a huge uphill battle, it's outright banned in 17 states. Yes, we absolutely should be doing everything within our power to drum up positive interest, but absolute best case scenario it's going to take several election cycles. We still need to make viable plans for the interim.
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This community is still in denial from last year I see, I guess none of you braindeads learned your lesson huh
Even funnier now that the DNC approved candidate is running as a 3rd party in NYC after losing his own primary. Suddenly no issue voting for an independent candidate there.
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Y'all are still doing this? It was moderates who lost you the election, now stop crying about it.
That would require investigating the underlying reasons for election failure instead of the smug vibes-based 'analysis' that centrists prefer
the character in the comic is not a nonvoting democrat (the subject of your linked article).
I did not vote democrat because I am not a democrat and therefore not a nonvoting-democrat. The democrat party did not convince me to cast my vote for their candidate. Just like now I am not a republican either. I did not vote republican.
Democrats lost because they neglected to consider just how important it could have been for their candidate to fucking come out against israel. It’s all she had to do: promise to not send a single dime to genocidal fascists. she had years of opportunity to fight her own president for that kind of change too.
Look what we got “instead.” A fascist who supports genocide.
Both parties are very much the same: capitalist.
It’s all she had to do: promise to not send a single dime to genocidal fascists. she had years of opportunity to fight her own president for that kind of change too.
Even just staying silent on the issue would be enough to differentiate her from Biden for many. She couldn't even avoid talking about how much she hated college students, but yet people act surprised those demographics didn't go out to vote. Weird how insulting potential voters and explicitly telling them you don't care about their vote leads to not getting their vote.
Given she avoided taking positions on most issues until the week of the election (other than to oppose healthcare and support fracking), I have a hard time believing someone in the campaign wasn't intentionally trying to throw the election...
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Contrary to what left-wing optimists had hoped, Democratic nonvoters in 2024 appear to have been less progressive than Democrats who voted. For instance, Democratic nonvoters were 14 points less likely to support banning assault rifles, 20 points less likely to support sending aid to Gaza, 17 points less likely to report believing that slavery and discrimination make it hard for Black Americans, 17 points more likely to support building a border wall with Mexico, 20 points more likely to support the expansion of fossil fuel production, and, sadly for economic populists, 16 points less likely to support corporate tax hikes (though this group still favored corporate tax hikes by a three to one margin). Overall, nonvoting Democrats were 18 points less likely to self-identify as “liberal” or “very liberal.”
But my punching bag!!
Only 39 percent of Democratic nonvoters identified as white, while 28 percent identified as Black, and 20 percent as Latino. This means that, compositionally, the more conservative profile of nonvoting Democrats (compared to voting Democrats) cannot be attributed to a whiter electorate.
My, uh, totally not racist punching bag!
Democratic nonvoters were nearly twice as likely (60 percent vs. 32 percent) to have a household income of less than $50,000 per year, they were nearly three times less likely to hold a four-year college degree (47 percent vs. 17 percent), twice as likely to be gig workers (31 percent vs. 15 percent), and only half as likely to be union members (27 percent vs. 14 percent). Further, nonvoting Democrats were more than twice as likely as voting Democrats to report feeling the economy is worse now than a year ago (46 percent vs. 22 percent) or that their incomes had recently decreased. And, perhaps not surprisingly given their economic precarity, Democratic nonvoters were substantially more likely than voters to support increased state welfare spending (61 percent vs. 52 percent).
My not racist, not classist punching bag…!
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Barely anyone voted for third parties. I have much more blame for the people who didn’t bother voting than the people who voted third party.
I’ll also call out that “not bothering” ignores that a huge sect of the public gets their vote falsely purged, or has their polling location closed, or some other voter suppression tactic.
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I too like punching down at people with no power. It would be too much for democratic leadership to learn the lessons of 2016 and 2024. Just blame progressives and people who want better things!
No I take this back. Harris was right to push for a fascist border bill and Biden was right to flood cops with money. Oh and we can’t forget enthusiastically funding genocides!
The dems really need to try to out fasc the fascists. That way they can persuade the moderate fascists! After all, progressives have no where else to go! I’m so glad Dems have so many big brained think tankers leading these extremely good strategies that always seems to work out well for us.
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Watching Biden kiss billionaire ass was way better than watching Trump's construction of concentration camps and also kiss billionaire ass.
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this yet again, still seething.
democrat failure is a failure of the democrats. they knew the assignment, they didn’t want to pay the price. they chose this reality instead
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Holy shit is this a braindead take.
Imagine being more upset with 3 million leftists than 70 million republicans.
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ITT: Lots of people who don't understand that US presidential elections are a binary choice, and one of them is going to be president.
Primary with your heart. General with your brain.
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I am European, so, an outsider perspective, but....
I'd love to know actual numbers, because I get the feeling "commies who voted third party" are too small a group to swing elections. Just a quick look at the numbers on Wikipedia give 0.11% for the Socialism and Liberation candidate. Jill Stein got more, as did RFK even after he had withdrawn already, but I doubt they were the popular choice of the communists arguing here on Lemmy during the election campaign. (Where I, personally, argued for voting for first Biden, then Harris, because I did not see the left in the US as organised enough to react to the kind of oppression Trump would bring early, whereas I'd wager a Democrat would not have escalated like this. Just to root my own bias for context.)
I am not saying it is impossible that they could have swung a very close state, but I admit, I do think it is very improbable.
So, this feels very much like impotent rage to me, directed at the annoying but ultimately equally impotent agitprop people on here. They are loud on here, but do you really think they were that influential during the election?
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Plus the republicans cheated. They did it legally through gerrymandering and voter suppression, but they also said they did it illegally. I believe them.
In summary
Vote blue no matter who:
Pro - Democrats more likely to win. Things won't immediately get worse.
Con - Democrats have no incentive to do anything other than what their wealthy donors want.
Result - Things don't get worse now, but eventual rightward drift is guaranteed because the democrats will do nothing good and the republicans will win eventually.
Vote blue only if X:
Pro - Democrats have an incentive to do something other than what their wealthy donors what, in theory.
Con - Democrats less likely to win.
Result - Democrats might do something good if they win. Rightward lurch is possible if they lose.
Can we please stop litigating this now?
Edit: The "best" approach would ultimately depend on the relative effectiveness of influencing democrat policy via primaries or whatever, and I don't think the answer is immediately obvious. I am not advocating one approach over the other, I just want people to stop pretending the answer is obvious.
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This is a fucking pointless fight. If you're still talking about this responsibility shifting nonsense, it doesn't matter what side of the argument you're one, you're a part of the problem.
Y'all are still going to be fighting about this dumb bullshit while ICE handcuffs everyone. Maybe unify so that doesn't happen.
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I feel like the reason there's been a resurgance of posts rehashing this has to do with Zohran Mamdani winning a primary in the largest city in the United States. While being openly pro-palestinian AND using the Socialist word positively to boot.
If Harris had won it is highly plausible she would have endorsed Cuomo leading to Zohran's loss.
Mamdani lends credibility to some of those 3rd party/non-voting/protest voters' strategy.
I think this causes some... feelings.
Mamdani is not third part though, because he won the primary. So he's the candidate from one of the two big parties.
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Jesus Christ the election is long over
Simply accept that out of two outcomes (leftists uniting to vote Democrat/leftists trying to send Democrats a message by not voting them in) both would lead to terrible consequences. It was a matter of time, it just got expedited to now instead of few years later.
You cannot vote democracy in if there's no fair democracy in the first place. Elections are over, they won't save you, unite over what you can do instead of wasting everything you have on infighting.
Organize and protest. Join the political organizations in your area and unionize. This is a harder way, and I know it takes time and energy to figure things out and organize and take part in all the actions made, but it is the only way that works.
Please, if you aren't already part of your local organizing teams, go search for them right now.
It would be saying you are perfectly ok with either candidate over the other. If you say Trump is worse, but the Democrat didn't earn my vote so I didn't, that's pretty aggravating to hear. If you truly felt both options were equally bad, well I can't imagine that perspective but at least that's a rational stance for going none of the above with a different vote.
It often sounds like you will only vote for the perfect candidate who agrees fully with you on every thing, which is an impractical ideal.
All this said, the numbers didn't break in a way for those third party voters to actually have mattered this time around, so despite how frustrated people may be, there's nothing rational in harping on it for 2024.
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This PIS again...
Oh, let's not blame the Nazis and their supporters in 1930s Germany. Let's blame everyone else who didn't vote the SPD.
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Well, at least they voted and did their duty as a citizen of democratic nation. Some people didn't even bother to do that much, so for these people they don't get to complain.
Don't forget the protest and ignorant voters! Literally happened on election Day: "I don't like how Biden/Harris is and will be handling Palestine so I'm gonna vote Trump" and "What happened to Biden? I don't know who Harris is, but I saw Trump on TV so I guess I'll vote for him."
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