this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2025
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Mildly Infuriating

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Home to all things "Mildly Infuriating" Not infuriating, not enraging. Mildly Infuriating. All posts should reflect that.

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[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 113 points 2 days ago (9 children)

I guess it’s easier to undertake a massive infrastructure project if you can just tell residents to move it or else…

[–] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 84 points 2 days ago (6 children)

The idea that you get to put a stake in the ground and then that plot of dirt yours forever is insane. The amount of infrastructure projects in Denmark that are put on hold indefinitely because locals are upset, not at being forced to move, but because they think they own their land and the view, is nuts.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 55 points 2 days ago (10 children)

I agree. There needs to be a middle ground. In Germany, NIMBYs opposed to wind turbines because they’re supposedly loud and ugly, as well as NIMBYs opposed to high-capacity power lines have become somewhat of a meme.

The right way to handle this is buying the land at a reasonable price (where you actually need to build on someone’s land, not buying ‘the view’).

[–] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 17 points 2 days ago (3 children)

NIMBYs opposed to windpower seems like a tale as old as time. Case in point, read Don Quixote, old man is so angry at wind turbines he actually tries to joust them through

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[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (6 children)

It’s either your land or it’s someone else’s. In a place like China the government owns all the land which means it’s all owned by wealthy, ultra-powerful, ultra-connected party elites. At no point is there a situation where millions or billions of people all share land in common. There is always politics, there will always be powerful elites, there will always be people getting screwed over.

The difference with Denmark is that individual small people have a tiny bit more power than individuals in China. The fact that this results in progress being impeded is a tradeoff that brings enormous benefits for personal freedom.

Read about the construction of the Three Gorges Dam. Over a million people were forcibly displaced from their homes as a result. Many cities, towns, and villages were completely destroyed. The living conditions of the displaced deteriorated and their lives were irrevocably altered.

[–] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 17 points 2 days ago (4 children)

There is world of difference between displacing a million people and doing little to help them along, and telling a small group of farmers to fuck off or get rolled over. It's not either / or. It's that in the western world, we attribute too much to land ownership because it's deeply tied to peoples personal economy and nebulous concepts like freedom. I think that's insane. Decomodify housing and ban the trading of land as a speculative market, and I think you'll see people give less of a shit about it.

Here in Denmark, farmers (and suburbanites pretending to be rural, let's be real) have an immensely disproportionate amount of power to veto infrastructure projects that benefit us all for the dumbest reasons, but I can't veto the parking lots they demand be built on my street even though it only benefits them.

Last month, some-200 farmers got off their subsidized ass to bitch and whine about how some electric poles off in the distance would, and I quote, "ruin my life". https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/niels-bliver-nabo-til-44-meter-hoeje-elmaster-vi-faar-oedelagt-vores-livsvaerdi

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[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 28 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Gestures in eminent domain.

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[–] Luci@lemmy.ca 25 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Careful, you might get a ban from .ml for saying that

[–] CybranM@feddit.nu 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The Chinese government is the most ethical government in the world according to people in .ml haha. Really boggles the mind

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[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 83 points 2 days ago (37 children)

All jokes aside, things like this are why China is beating us. I am absolutely not a fan of the Chinese government, but the simple fact is they get shit done.

[–] rustydomino@lemmy.world 45 points 2 days ago (22 children)

It helps that in China you can’t own land. All the land is owned by the government. You only have “use rights” and for a limited time (something like 80 years - I forget the exact number). So when it comes time to build infrastructure the government just tells you to gtfo.

[–] rustydomino@lemmy.world 32 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Look to public transit development in Taiwan as an example of how to do it right in a democratic nation. There are still loads of problems but the Taiwanese government can’t just take your land outright. Taipei especially has seen phenomenal growth in its metro development in the last 20 years.

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[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (1 children)

America is no different. Try not paying your land tax.

The only difference is that, in America, someone needs to shout "eminent domain!" first and slip you $500 for your house.

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[–] grumpusbumpus@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago

No just any shit, shit that helps everyday people living in their country.

I'm just thinking of the major cities in my U.S. state where the public transit map, before and after, looks like Chengdu in 2010. So as unfortunate as the circumstances are in Toronto, they can be even worse.

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[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 70 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

Chengdu is the capital city of the Chinese province of Sichuan. With a population of 20,937,757 at the 2020 census.

Toronto is the most populous city in Canada and the capital city of the Canadian province of Ontario. With a population of 2,794,356 in 2021

[–] zockerr@lemmy.world 77 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Meanwhile Hamburg, Germany with only 1.8 Million:

collapsed inline media1000003619

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[–] TheCleric@lemmy.org 17 points 1 day ago (10 children)

DONT BRING NUANCE AND LOGIC TO A SENSELESS FEELINGS-BAITING POST! It doesn’t MATTER the city layout over top of it, the context of rapid and rampant industrialization in China, or something as inconsequential as number of people!

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (6 children)

i don't understand your reasoning here. are you saying that Toronto hasn't needed more subway lines than a couple extensions in 15 years? how does the number of people affect the lines? i would think it should affect the number of trains and trips. the lines would be more about where people live and want to go, no?

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[–] napkin2020@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

collapsed inline media

NYC with almost half of the population of Chengdu.

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[–] metallic_substance@lemmy.world 57 points 2 days ago (7 children)

I don't care about the post itself, but OP, in the last 24 hours you've made something like 80 posts. What the fuck?

[–] Davriellelouna@lemmy.world 53 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

I'm posting an absolute shit ton of content to support Lemmy.

You aren't the first one to notice :)

[–] Tau@lemy.lol 12 points 2 days ago
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[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 56 points 2 days ago (22 children)

Population: Chengdu over 20 million vs. under 3 million in Toronto.

The maps above also seem to be differently scaled.

Also, the fact that it has technologically developed fast in the past decades, as compared to Canada that has developed steadily in the past century, is not really the gotcha OP seems to imply it is.

That said, it's perfectly possible that public transport in Toronto leaves much to be desired - without comparing it to Chengdu.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 21 points 2 days ago

Not to undermine your point on the demand, but note that Chengdu's population has grown <7 million since phase 1 of Line 1 (the 18.5km middle quarter of the navy purple line; for reference the green Toronto line is 26.2km) was opened, while the decades that preceded this saw the city having similar population growth rates to Toronto.

The maps above also seem to be differently scaled.

The Toronto map is ~2x more-a-zoomied-in, judging by the distances between the farthest stations. In 2024, looking at the track maps, the driving distance between the farthest stations (Vaghan Met. to Victoria Park) is 36km while that of Chengdu (天府机场北 to 何公路) is 93 km.

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[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 44 points 2 days ago (4 children)

as someone who lives in Toronto I mean....you really don't need an extensive subway network here. We have a lot of buses and several lines of street cars (trollys, trains on the road, whatever you call them where you live).

So what's being shown here is ONLY the subway network. it doesn't show the vast street car lines would would make it look A LOT like the China photo.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

mean....you really don't need an extensive subway network here

Found the 905'er

The streetcar network is a complete shitshow. Multiple streetcars bunched up, with hundreds of people inside, being blocked by a few SUV drivers and parked cars on the side of the street.

Its faster to bike or walk in most cases.

Same for the buses. There's a reason the bus lines here have nicknames like "the sufferin' dufferin"

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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

At grade == weak

Toronto isn't filled with great alternate modes of mass transit so much as it's filled with excuses not to build mass transit.

Let me weep in "Ontario line".

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

is this why there is no traffic problems in Toronto and commute is not a suicide inducing nightmare?

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[–] Logical@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago (6 children)

What's up with all the China hype on Lemmy? These projects are impressive, no doubt, but their cost in terms of human rights violations are pretty high. I'm speaking generally, I don't have the specifics with regards to this subway system. Either way it's not really comparable to a project like this in a country like Canada imo.

[–] hansolo@lemmy.today 28 points 1 day ago (5 children)

lol, as if it's all magic?

Does the sinkhole caused by slapdash construction feature on the map?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/subway-under-construction-collapses-chinas-chengdu-creating-sinkhole-2024-06-21/

How about the shed where 4 people died during construction?

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202109/11/WS613ba6e7a310efa1bd66ebdc.html

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[–] alexc@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Public transport policy in Toronto is a disaster. It is a complete disappointment of a city and an ugly blight on the landscape that serves only captialism and vapid mediocrity

[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

its sad im over here in Dallas and im envious of Toronto.

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[–] burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (3 children)

boiling down different countries having different things as one of them 'winning' and 'beating us' always fills me with nuclear levels of contrarianism. can tychus findlay from starcraft have a lit cigar in his mouth? NO, because china doesnt allow smoking in media. Guess we're beating them!

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[–] perishthethought@piefed.social 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Did ... Did they close stations on the Eastern line in Toronto?

[–] mercano@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah. Line 3 used different rolling stock than the other three lines, unusual linear induction motor powered equipment, which was reaching the end of its service life. The plan was to shut it down in November 2023 and temporarily replace it with bus service while they built a Line 2 extension to serve the neighborhoods Line 3 used to. Unfortunately, a train derailed in July 2023, which resulted in the system shutting down four months sooner than expected.

The Line 2 extension is going to take a different route to eventually arrive at Line 3’s old terminus. I think there’s plans to covert the old line 3 viaduct into a Bus Rapid Transit guideway.

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[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Orange vs Apple! Who will win!

That being said I do wish every country would have a better public infrastructure.

Just out of curiosity if you do have recent research in economy on the impact of subway, tram, bus, bike lanes, etc on both productivity AND happiness, please do share. I'm already convinced but I'd love to learn more on how and why.

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[–] TemplaerDude@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 days ago (5 children)

I do think there needs to be a shift in how the government invests in this country, but the answer isn’t “let’s go authoritarian”. Governments need to stop looking for big, complicated answers though and realize that production and growth comes from within, and improving mobility increases production, simple as that. You can invest in industries till the cows come home, but the optics of giving tax breaks and incentives to companies when it takes John 2 hours to drive to work is never going to be good.

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