this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2025
49 points (98.0% liked)

Ask Lemmy

33301 readers
2222 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Is there an absolute amount of shelf life to them

all 16 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 51 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (4 children)

Very often a virtual particle–antiparticle pair appears and because they're very happy they started existing, they immediately hug each other not knowing that will cause them to annihilate each other and disappear.

Every once in a while, the pair appears in a very interesting position: one is outside the event horizon of a black hole (let's call this one Pinocchio) and the other inside it (let's call it 3735928559). Because nothing can escape a black hole, they can't really hug, so Pinocchio says "I'm a real ~~boy~~ particle" and stops being virtual and becomes real, while 3735928559 continues its descent into ~~madness~~ singularity.

Unfortunately, the process means there now exists something (Pinocchio) where there wasn't anything before and that takes energy. And that energy comes from the particle that stayed behind which is now part of the black hole, so it effectively takes energy out of the black hole. You may have heard that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed, that's essentially what happens here.

The Pinocchios go away from the black hole, so they can end up basically anywhere in the universe.

As for the timescales, they entirely depend on the black hole's size. Really tiny black holes evaporate in a matter of seconds, the supermassive ones in a matter of trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions... years.

In fact, black holes will be the last macroscopic structures to exist in the universe because the evaporation is extremely slow - every planet and every star and every gas cloud and every atom will cease to exist long before the last black hole evaporates.

[–] electric@lemmy.world 8 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

I don't know if this is true but it was very fun to read.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 13 points 15 hours ago

Depends on your definition of "true". Is it scientifically true? No. Is it the actual science simplified a lot so it can be read by a non-physicist human being? Yes.

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Reserving judgment permanently less a day on that exhibit, Counsellor

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

How can stuff have negative mass in the true sense of that?

[–] Sheepy@sh.itjust.works 14 points 17 hours ago

In this context, "negative mass" is a mathematical convenience rather than an actual particle having negative mass.

Think of it more like "energy required to pull apart a matter-antimatter pair". In the vacuum of space, the energy that created the pair gets returned when they annihilate. But when near a blackhole, it had to "burn" some of its energy to interrupt that process. Energy is mass, so the blackhole gets less massive.

Mind you this is a very basic explanation of it. It's just another quantum whackyness of our universe.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 2 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

How does adding a particle to the black hole remove energy from it?

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 9 points 18 hours ago

The entire reason the particles can come in to existance is because the black hole curves spacetime enough to 'eat' one of the pair. It only exists because of the black hole. The particle leaving the black hole takes energy away because that area of spacetime now has less energy in it, meaning the black hole shrinks. The black hole isn't magically adding energy to the space around it in order to create these pairs.

If you throw a ball away from you, yes you feel the force, but now you've sent a bunch of energy away from yourself in the ball. In effect, the black hole is 'throwing' particles away from itself by the simple act of eating part of the spawned particles.

I've explained it poorly, but PBS Spacetime has several great episodes on the specific phenominon.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 4 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

It's not a particle in the regular sense you might know, like an electron. The pair that comes into existence is meant to annihilate immediately (meaning there's zero energy gain or loss) but because of where it appeared it can't.

When it appears as I described, there suddenly exists a real particle in the universe outside the black hole, so the universe gained +1 in energy.

But energy can't be created or destroyed, so that +1 means somewhere there must be a -1. And that somewhere is the black hole which caused the particle to exist in the first place by swallowing its pair.

It's not very intuitive, that's the fun part about quantum mechanics: nothing is intuitive.

[–] einlander@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago
[–] BurgerBaron@piefed.social 5 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Ace covered it well enough, and I think you can find their "shelf life" using the math Hawking came up with to predict when a certain mass black hole will be fully evaporated. How accurately I'm not sure.

The actual form of the radiation emmited back into space from evaporation depends on the mass IIRC. So stellar to supermassive would show up as photons and neutrinos. As they shrink they get hotter for some reason (I'm just a layperson too) and then could emit stuff like electrons, muons, etc. Evaporation also accelerates as the black hole mass shrinks.

Not sure what happens when the black hole reaches the mass of something that's not a black hole like a Neutron Star. Does the black hole singularity explode? Don't know. That's one idea vs just shrinking until it winks out of existence.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 7 points 18 hours ago

The evaporation increases because spacetime is bent more rapidly by smaller black holes than big ones. It's the same reason you can enter a supermassive black hole without being spaghettified, because the curvature never reaches a point where there's a huge difference between your feet and head, sort of thing.

That curvature drives the evaporation rate, because the particles flying off are virtual particles whos partner fell in to the black hole with it flying outward. That happens far less often when the curvature is so low that any given point around the black hole is almost flat spacetime.