Hello World!

We've recently added PieFed.World to the Fedihosting Foundation portfolio.

PieFed.World is still in its early stages, and we still need to port some of our automations we already have in place on Lemmy.World. This includes functionality to inform people about moderation actions taken against them, as well as some other moderation tooling. Administration is currently done by the same team responsible for Lemmy.World, and the same rules that apply to Lemmy.World also apply to PieFed.World.

What is PieFed?

PieFed is a Fediverse/Threadiverse platform similar to Lemmy or Mbin/kbin. You can find a description and feature comparison with Lemmy on their website.

While PieFed has a range of features currently not present in Lemmy, it also is a a lot younger and isn't quite as robust as Lemmy currently is. There are still many bugs and missing features that you will likely run across compared to Lemmy, which will take time to be addressed. PieFed has fairly active development and is seeing a lot of issues addressed fairly quickly, which is especially important recently, as the number of active PieFed instances and PieFed users increased significantly with a range of Lemmy instances opening up PieFed instances as well. PieFed currently does not have proper "stable" releases and no test suite, so it's not unlikely for things to break from time to time. Although 1.0.0 has already been released a while back, there are still too many issues addressed in more recent commits to stay on that version.

As PieFed is part of the same federated network as Lemmy and Mbin, all PieFed communities can be accessed from Lemmy and Mbin, as well as other Fediverse platforms. Likewise, PieFed can access communities from Lemmy, Mbin and other Fediverse platforms. Whether you use a PieFed instance, a Lemmy instance, or an Mbin instance, it does not matter what type of instance the community is on. The software affects your own user experience, but the content is available regardless.

Creation of communities

Creation of communities will be limited to admins for the first week of the public launch. We will reserve this time to allow community moderators of established communities to claim the name on PieFed.World before we open community creation to the public. We will limit this to communities with the same name and at least 2k monthly active users. In case of multiple qualifying communities with the same name on different instances expressing interest, Lemmy.World communities will be given preference, afterwards the number of monthly active users. Please reach out if you'd like to discuss an exception. Requests can be posted in !support@piefed.world. After the first week, community creation will be available to anyone.

Migration of communities

PieFed has a feature to migrate communities to a local instance. We will not be offering PieFed's community migration feature initially.

We still need to research the details of how this works and the impacts this has on federation before we will make a decision on whether will support this in the future. If requested, we may reserve some names for potential future community migrations until we have made a decision to allow community migrations.

This does not prevent you from moving communities in the classic way, by opening up a new community and posting in the old community that people should move over.

Private voting

We had previously disabled private voting for PieFed.World before opening the instance to the public, as the original implementation has a range of drawbacks when it comes to federation, and our team overwhelmingly believed that the individual benefits of private voting did not outweigh the impact this has on the Fediverse beyond the user's instance. Additionally, due to the implementation of that feature, it was also trivial to identify the original voter, which significantly limited the promises of this bringing actual voting privacy.

Since then, the implementation of private voting has been changed to provide the option of federating or not federating votes. While this is more likely to result in vote differences across instances, it does not feed bad information to other instances, which could make it a lot harder for other instances to identify manipulation.

Non-federated voting is available for all PieFed.World users.

Topics

Topics are a kind of "starter packs" or collections grouping multiple communities that people can follow, curated by the admin team. We don't have a clear vision for the structure of these yet.

You can see an example structure on piefed.social.

Feel free to let us know your thoughts on this.

Feeds

PieFed supports feeds, which are user-created groups of communities, similar to topics. These are currently in a global namespace and all users can create public feeds in the same shared namespace.

Reputation and vote weight

PieFed has options for admins to treat certain types of content differently for "reputation" calculation, as well as options for weighing votes of specific instances differently compared to others. We currently have all options for treating certain content, communities or instances differently disabled.

How does PieFed compare to Lemmy?

PieFed has various features not present in Lemmy, check out their website!

There is also various functionality that Lemmy has, which you may be missing currently with PieFed for now:

Limited API support

In Lemmy, the default web interface relies entirely on the Lemmy API. This has the major benefit of all functionality available in the default web interface also being available to all third party clients. PieFed currently uses separate code paths and implementations for the default web interface and its API. To make it possible to access functionality in third party apps, dedicated API endpoints have to be created, even if this functionality is already available in the default web interface. This also includes alternative web-based UIs.

Multiple developers of alternative UIs and mobile clients are already working on PieFed support, some already released experimental versions.

Limited availability of Markdown previews

Markdown previews are currently only available in posts. There are many other places that accept markdown, but you can't preview the rendered comment before submitting it. This is tracked in #532.

Image uploads only on post creation

Images can't be uploaded to comments currently. You'll have to host them externally for now. This is tracked in #768.

Autocompletion of users/communities

Usernames and communities can't be autocompleted when typing their names currently. This is tracked in #799.

Limited availability of modlog

Modlog is currently very limited. While there is an instance modlog, there are currently no filters available, so it's not possible for users to see actions taken against a specific user or within a specific community. Community modlog exists, but it is currently only available to community moderators and admins. Filtering modlog is tracked in #846.

Moderator hierarchy

Lemmy has a moderator hierarchy based on the time a moderator was appointed, relative to other moderators in the community. This allows moderators to add other moderators, but they can only remove moderators that were added later than they were. There are a few other actions that check moderator hierarchy as well, including deletion only being possible by the top mod. In PieFed, communities have one or more owners, who can add and remove moderators, while all other moderators are currently on equal level. Community owners currently cannot be changed without editing this directly in the database, if you'd like to change owners in your community please reach out in !support@piefed.world.

Donations

Similar to Lemmy, PieFed development is supported by donations. You can donate to PieFed development through Patreon.

Additionally, we would appreciate donations towards the Fedihosting Foundation, the non-profit organization operating PieFed.World, Lemmy.World, and a range of other Fediverse platforms.

Problems and questions

Please report any issues and questions about PieFed.World in !support@piefed.world.

For topics about the software PieFed, please visit !piefed_meta@piefed.social.

Bugs can be reported on Codeberg.

TLDR: New platform with similar functionality available, Lemmy.World will continue to exist.

edit: reordered sections and minor wording changes

edit 2: updated community owner information

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 79 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

What I really want out of a federated Reddit-like service is link consolidation. I don't want to see the same link posted on five different communities; I want those to be consolidated into one topic, with the OP text and comments from each threaded below it. It'd clean up the interface and make it work a lot more usefully.

In fact, this would make pretty much everything in the Fediverse better. Let me sort my timeline by URL or hashtag, so that I can see what is being said about a certain thing and not make the same observation or joke that a dozen others already have. Put that functionality into an RSS reader, so that I can see the discussion without leaving the article. Or, even better, merge the two into a single feed, tying threads together based on the URL that's being shared.

Now that would be an "everything app" worth using.

EDIT: Apparently they've already made the first leap there! Everyone's talking about topics and feeds, I didn't know they'd made that advancement. Looking forward to trying it out.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 3 days ago (7 children)

Piefed solves that issue: https://piefed.zip/post/100161

All comments from 5 crossposts in a single view

A few other options

https://piefed.social/ - flagship instance
https://piefed.zip/ - lemmy.zip team
https://piefed.ca/ - lemmy.ca team
https://feddit.online/

[–] pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 days ago

also, https://piefed.blahaj.zone/

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Oh, fascinating! I'm going to have to take a look. Everyone's talking about topics and feeds, I didn't know they'd made that advancement.

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[–] Pamasich@kbin.earth 8 points 2 days ago

Mbin has a form of this too. They're still treated as separate posts, but visually grouped together and minimized.

[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Doesn't PieFed already do this?

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

Apparently! Everyone's talking about topics and feeds, I didn't know they'd made that advancement. Gonna check it out!

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Reddit could have done this too, but never did. At least to my knowledge.

There must be a reason.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

On Reddit, I kinda get it. You wouldn't want to connect the same link across (for instance) /r/antiwork and /r/conservative; the crosstalk there would get horrifyingly bad. But on a federated platform, when you could have multiple /c/antiworks on different instances, it fragments the conversation.

[–] MimicJar@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Reddit sorta half did it with the "other discussions" or duplicate tab.

As an example,

https://old.reddit.com/r/news/duplicates/1lvi6kb/a_clicktocancel_rule_intended_to_make_cancelling/

I never saw any apps implement it, but it does look like it was part of the API, but maybe it wasn't robust enough.

I also know at one point, and possibly still, is that it lacked URL normalization. So for example, exanple.com/headline and example.com/headline#topstory would be treated as two different articles.

Would be treated as separate articles.

These are all fixable problems, but require work.

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I haven’t been there in years but there used to be a “related discussions” link that would show you a list of other places a link was posted.

[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 5 points 2 days ago

Lemmy has that too (depending which app/frontend you use)

[–] kittenzrulz123@piefed.blahaj.zone 32 points 3 days ago

Haiiiiiiiii from Blahaj Piefed :3

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 27 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A day that will live in infamy! But in a good way. A day that will live in famy!

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

Uhhh, fame?

[–] Syrc@lemmy.world 26 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So, if I understood it correctly, PieFed is simply another platform using ActivityPub, just developed by different people?

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

pretty much, yeah. different people, different programming languages, some feature differences, etc. but still the same content.

[–] Syrc@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I see, that’s nice. I know a LOT of people were turned off by Lemmy because of the .ml devs, hopefully PieFed is more appealing to them.

[–] compostgoblin@piefed.blahaj.zone 24 points 3 days ago

Yeah, nutomic and some of their statements were a significant factor motivating my switch from Lemmy to Piefed. I’m glad we have the option here on Blahaj, and shout out to the Voyager dev for adding Piefed support!

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (7 children)

I have not found it hard at all to just ignore the .ml devs and people in general. Why is this such an issue for literally anyone?

[–] Syrc@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Some users don’t want to support a project that’s being developed by people they don’t like.

It’s kind of how some people left Reddit because of Spez, even though the amount of money Lemmy devs make doesn’t remotely compare, and the risk of enshittification/powertripping is minimal due to the whole project being open source.

I personally don’t see it as a huge issue, but I can see why it would be for someone (and I’d definitely see it differently if I was actively supporting the platform through donations).

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 6 points 2 days ago (7 children)

I would argue that their authoritarian preferences get baked right into the codebase: e.g. there is a modlog but no notification of a moderation event, no modmail to contest or at least discuss such an event, no ability to DM or even be aware of which moderator performed the action (it used to say the mod name, but now it merely says "mod"), and deleted or removed posts disappear as if they never existed, ironically with the message to check back in later, as if it might come back but of course it never will.

The "rights" of someone being moderated are either to spin up their own instance or to not and just suck it up and take it, or else leave Lemmy entirely. Unsurprisingly, we see people leaving Lemmy in droves (and some, such as those who went back to Reddit, we don't see so clearly, only being able to read their complaints about Lemmy if we go to Reddit to do so).

And yes the codebase is open, but it's also complex and written in Rust. It is just easier to write an entirely new application of the ActivityPub protocol in a more comfortable language than to work with the Lemmy codebase, people such as the developers of Kbin, now Mbin, Sublinks, and PieFed seem to feel. And now these have a chance to do differently.:-)

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[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 3 days ago

Nice !

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 13 points 3 days ago

This... is... AWESOME! 😎 And YOU are awesome! You all freaking rock! 🤘

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[–] 96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Question: is PieFed the new kid on the block? Or has it been around for just as long as Lemmy or even longer?

I just love to see these platforms competing whilst working together, in the sense of adding to eachother, making the entire thing bigger and bigger. I've known for a long time that this is possible, but to see it happen is beautiful. Surely this allows for way more innovation and customization than closed source apps could ever realize. It makes me confident that the Fediverse will flourish, more than it already is.

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (3 children)

piefed is a fair bit younger, the first commitin the git repo was on Fri Jul 28 02:07:44 2023 +0000. it has only in recent months started really picking up some traction with several lemmy instances already creating piefed instances as well.

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[–] FenderStratocaster@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I feel like all of this federation is a double-edged sword. Constant evolution and development isn't bad, but maintaining active users while constantly moving from one platform to another is probably going to be difficult too. I know I'm starting to get overwhelmed with it.

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 39 points 3 days ago (1 children)

nobody needs to move to another platform. both lemmy and piefed show the same content, think of it more like using a different client that also has different features. both lemmy.world and piefed.world will continue to exist.

[–] teohhanhui@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Decoupling identity from the instance is really important. It's unfortunate that that's not yet possible...

My identity = who I am. The instances are just services that I use. I should be able to use the same identity while accessing different services.

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[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 6 points 3 days ago (9 children)

Use of PieFed is optional though, only for those who want it?

Though as app support improves, like Voyager, more people may choose it to take advantage of features that Lemmy lacks. The list is quite extensive but includes categories of communities, which are user customizable and shareable, flairs, both user and post/community, hashtags, keyword filters, true blocking of instances, and so much more. Plus being written in Python, that list will only continue to be added to as time passes, taking days to weeks to add them rather than years.

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[–] mintiefresh@piefed.ca 11 points 3 days ago

Wow. Let's gooooo!!

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Thanks for making this happen!

[–] Spaniard@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Is there an old.lemmy.world theme?

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[–] Jerry@feddit.online 5 points 3 days ago

This sounds like a Piefed.world announcement that a Lemmy developer would have written.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 5 points 3 days ago

Nice!! Woo hoo!

[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

How can I subscribe to piefed.world users and communities etc from my lemmy.world account?

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago

lemmy doesn't support subscribing to users, but you can subscribe to communities the same way you'd subscribe to other communities from other instances.

[–] Sackeshi@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Can I log in with my Lemmy.world account

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

no, accounts are completely separate.

piefed does have some social auth support, which is currently also being worked on, but lemmy is not an auth provider that can be used with that. once social auth in piefed becomes more stable we will consider enabling it for supported providers.

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[–] return2ozma@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Welcome!

[–] occultist8128@infosec.pub 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

i just need a good integration between all fediverse services so people would migrate to fedi. lemmy posts with all its replies are still flooding my mastodon timeline rn

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 7 points 3 days ago

Mbin? Its largest instance iirc is fedia.io, which accesses both "Threads" (Threadiverse, so like Lemmy, PieFed, other Mbin instances, nodeBB, etc.) and "Microblog" (Mastodon).

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