Is this what it looks like when a country is losing a war? The moment before utter collapse looks like the nation's defense industry maturing international partnerships and production lines in conjunction with other powerful countries on a mutually beneficial basis while being the focus of an arms development expo?

Damn, Ukraine I would surrender now if I were you.

Also while I think Ukraine deserves to become a much larger focus for global military industrial arms development, also.... this shit is a bad drug. It will kill you even as it makes you more powerful... but at this point I see this as a bigger threat to Ukraine than Russia decisively winning. This is just getting absurd how hard US mainstream media is trying to sell the idea that Ukraine is losing. I am not saying the outlook or current situation are great in the near term for Ukraine, but again I don't think Ukraine would be developing mature arms production relationships specifically to share their expertise learned on the battlefield if Ukraine was losing the way the news always is trying to convince me it is....

They simply wouldn't have the time, because war famously isn't great about giving you spare time to pursue opportunities elsewhere in the world. If Russia was winning the way it needs to all aid flowing into Ukraine would just basically be flowing inwards, a one way street of more powerful, rested, experts providing materials and knowledge to an exhausted fighting force that doesn't have the time to pursue new developments rather than keep hammering on the ones that are working at the frontline.... this isn't that relationship though, this is clearly a two way conversation which demonstrates a different power balance, one where Ukraine is much more powerful than the media keeps trying to portray it as. I am not saying Ukranians aren't exhausted, I am saying they are exhausted AND.

If you don't understand why I am proposing this other hypothetical possibility for Ukraine, understand I elucidate it because I believe it is the position that the US military industrial complex wanted Ukraine to be in, but Ukraine fought so hard despite being supported by shitty allies that weren't actually real allies that it didn't happen. The U.S. military industrial complex doesn't want domestic arms productions in other countries with homegrown experts there who understand war without needing consultation and direct arms sales from US companies that have a monopoly in material and knowledge about how to produce the means for countries to effectively defend themselves.

[–] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Never surround to imperialists. Go away Russian plant.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

You misunderstand me, I support Ukraine, I just grew up in Iraq War era US and I know what happens to a culture when it sees the future mostly in terms of weapon systems and their capacity. It means I support Ukraine but I also understand how this system tends to evolve and that changes how I relate to it.

edit my point is that this is a quiet indicator that Ukraine is in a stronger position than the media usually portrays it in the western world, at least in my bubble. I believe Russia is foolish to continue the war because while Ukraine is suffering immensely it is also evolving while Russia is not and that will cost Russia dearly. Good.

[–] Green_Mouse@piefed.social 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

People are dying almost every day, some people have left the country, weapons and ammunition are in short supply, cities and villages are bombed... it's a hardly strong position, and what's worse, Europe and America are prolonging the war, while we could have won long ago, imho. We can't fight forever.

[–] Tuuktuuk@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's not a very strong position, true. But Ukraine is nowhere near losing the war. And unless the Russia somehow manages to get big time external help, its economy will eventually crash. It will get very difficult for it to continue its war efforts after that.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Russia doesn't have any significant reserves of armored vehicles with which to continue creating offensives, that is the hard truth for Russia. It does not mean Ukraine is not under serious threat, it means Russia cannot continue to push large offensives without utterly crashing out their economy and fighting force.

All of this hype about drones and motorbikes making tanks and armored vehicles obsolete is part of the lie trying to be sold to cover for the fact that Russia is trying to fight offensives without armored vehicles and they just can't. It never works, it isn't working and it won't work drones don't change that especially when the other side is better at drone tactics AND has armored fighting vehicles. Russia is condemning countless Russians and North Koreans to pointless brutal deaths at the hands of superior Ukranian tactics, and the PR coming out of it looks horrible for Russia most especially from an arms sales standpoint, which is a major driver of Russia's political power along with their oil obviously.

Russia can't keep slamming the few remaining armored vehicles they have into overwhelming defensive Ukranian positions and expect to continue to function as a country, it just won't happen. They will have to find ways to terrorize Ukraine that involve acts of terrorism rather than outright mechanized manuever warfare, and they are and it must be very scary for Ukraine.

That doesn't change the fact though that Russia is not in the strong position that the western media seems to think it is, independent of how Ukraine is doing.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I did not mean to portray this as an easy time for Ukraine, or that Russia doesn't still pose a serious existential threat longer term to Ukraine.. my point is that the western media is bought by rich people and Putin has those rich people for the most part on his side including my orange shit stain of a president, or at least putin has bought them off from directly attacking him too harshly.... which has resulted in a picture being sold to people everyday in my country that Ukraine is about to collapse when Russia just blew through the vast majority of their armor reserves and are now trying to launch an offensive with no significant mechanized troops/armor to support it.

Russia also has lost a huge amount of artillery systems and Ukraine now has a domestic steady production of them.

Russia is far weaker than it looks here, which isn't to say this isn't a desperate junction for the lives of people living in Ukraine, this is a war, I understand that. Wars don't pause for nice days and happy news...

[–] Green_Mouse@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't know why your comments were downvoted, people can be so harsh... Anyway, thank you for the clarification.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think probably because people are exhausted and scared and I guess when I stop and think about it I can understand that even as I am frustrated that I am being misunderstood.

People did not choose to be too exhausted and scared to genuinely listen to me, that was something done unto them by their environment and that is the thing that is the root driver of this, not people misunderstanding me in the moment. Every Russian bot troll spouting stupid hate reduces people's capacity to engage with someone like me who at first might trigger a kneejerk categorization as one of those things. The conversation has been degraded on purpose.

...and so I will be patient and explain myself

[–] Brainsploosh@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wow, this is a confused garble of loaded opinion.

It also reeks of Russian disinformation tactics.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They seem to be saying that:

1-The Ukrainian defense industry is going to get big and turn them into a miniature version of America with its military-industrial complex, which is really bad.

2-Ukraine's position is likely better than media portrays, since they have the capacity to pursue such opportunities while maintaining their war effort.

I certainly haven't seen these arguments made before, but they don't seem like disinformation.

[–] Brainsploosh@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It smells of disinformation as it presents several differing views and conclusions. Entirely in accordance with Russian disinformation tactics both domestic and international.

The tool is to bombard with enough contradictory truths that one has to choose a subset and reject the others, or give up in the face of the constant flood.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It smells of disinformation as it presents several differing views and conclusions.

Where's the contradiction? Ukraine is expanding its defense industry internationally -> their defense industry is strong -> they're doing well in the war + their military-industrial complex will get more powerful. Seems to be one consistent train of thought. The first paragraph is sarcasm.

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

Yes, this is what I was intending, the only part you missed was my general reluctance to engage in the worship of warfighting as I saw what it did to my country.

Look at my post and comment history, everything I have said is consistent with it, I am welcome to someone debating on the merits of my arguments (which in no way are pro russian or pro russian imperialism) but I bristle at being called a Russian plant because it reveals an intellectual laziness that is uninterested in my points that are decidedly, unambigously pro-Ukraine.

I don't know what people's primary languages are here, maybe my words are being lost in translation?